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Hi morning, everyone and thanks for joining us

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this morning. I'm really excited to

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announce our key note. So I'll get on with it. So Dana Abdullah.

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Is a designer researcher and educator who's

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research encompasses decolonizing design

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possibilities of design education design cultures,

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the politics of design publishing a

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new narratives and practices in design that push the

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disciplinary boundaries and definitions of the discipline.

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She is a founding member of the decolonizing design platform

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and founded kalamat magazine an

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independent nonprofit magazine about Arab thought

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and culture.

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Our first book designally ways of knowing a working

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inventory of things a designer should know was published

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by onomatopi in 2022.

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Dana obtained her PhD in in

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Jordan. I'm sorry in in the

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department of design at Goldsmith University, London.

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In her current role as program director of graphic

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design at camberwell Chelsea and Wimbledon colleges

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of Art.

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Ual, Donna is responsible for BA in

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graphic design ba in graphic design communication. Ma

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in graphic design communication. I may

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in global collaborative design practice and The Graduate

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diploma in graphic design and Dana

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is also hilarious.

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And such a joy to be around. I've only met

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a couple of times and it's a real privilege to be able to spend some

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time with her here and

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I personally find her writing and work

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really inspirational. And the thing that I like most is

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the fact that she gets things done. She does stuff.

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So thank you Donna for

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everything you do and over to you.

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Thank you Sally for that wonderful introduction.

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Hear me, okay.

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I have to wear these things now to read so.

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Okay.

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So thanks very much for being here on

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a Saturday morning, which I know if

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you stayed out late last night, which I did not.

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Could be quite difficult.

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So, thanks again for the invitation Sally. I

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really appreciate you you're kind of

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belief in my work and inviting me to be here and thank

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you very much to the organizers. So

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In this talk, I use entries from my book

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designedly ways of knowing a working inventory of

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things a designer should know to explore what I

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call the contradictions of sustainability.

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The way Brands greenwashed their practices to Signal

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their good and ethical practices and how

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they continue to create products and services branded as

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sustainable that we just do not need but never

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challenging the systems that created the problems to

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begin with.

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leaning

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in and produced knowledge differently.

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Why have I chosen the term amateur over

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generalist?

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I quote Sayeed who draws on the literal meaning of

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the word in French?

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the love of something

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the somethings he loved. He was very involved in without being

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a professional.

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Throughout his life and career side fought against the trappings

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of specialization and raised questions about

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issues that spent multiple disciplines.

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areas, Beyond his specialization of literature

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I believe that the designer cannot be anything but an amateur

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because design no matter how you define. It

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is about everything.

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In this talk, I am working through ideas with you

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dear audience to iterate them.

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I request your patience through this process of what may not

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be fully formed ideas.

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Sorry.

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Yes.

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In drafting what I wanted to write about. I was blocked my

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interests and observations spend so

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many areas and I constantly observed systems at play

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particularly health and supermarkets the latter

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of which we spent a lot of time in over the past two

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years.

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I will return to the supermarket towards the end.

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Ask myself questions such as why are only the damaging

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measures of surveillance put in place during covid have remained.

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Societies individualism help spread the virus more than

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it could have how could the Elizabeth line cost over

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14 billion pounds and there's no signage at Heathrow.

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Why do footballers make so much money? How can

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a country so rich have so many food banks?

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Why are public toilets still disgusting despite enhanced cleaning

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measures and people still don't wash their hands?

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Why do people keep windows closed on public transit during

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covid?

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Things such as SodaStream machines or laundry tablets or

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coffee tablets or banana peelers or fitbits.

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And finally, why do we continue to believe

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that everything that exists can be made sustainable?

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this

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Society consumers States segment

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and just as the rest of the world as seen and

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lived by consumers culture turns into a warehouse of

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meant for consumption products each vying

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for the shifting drifting attention of prospective

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consumers in the hope to attract it

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and hold it for a bit longer than a fleeting moment.

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Our consumer Society is fueled by the type of

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person successive governments in the global North have worked

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to promote.

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The resilient individualistic and productive person who

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is at the service of the economy.

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You can see this in how we talk about mental health healing is a

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personal Journey practice self-

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care in thinking about the consumer Society. I was

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reminded of Catherine youssef's quote.

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Solutions and proposals are all about the

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continuance of the current status of inequality powered by

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other means

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And this my Broadview got even broader and at times

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narrower, but then it broadened and so I

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decided to focus on Brands since I've been documented what

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documenting what I deemed contradictions since 2019.

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However in the last year

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There was an obvious abundance of green plant-based clean

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natural and the now token

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diversity language and adverts.

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To quote Marshall mcluhan when a thing is current it creates

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currency and sustainability in social justice are

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doggy go.

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Generations said maybe

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tilted as the social justice and climate change Advocate

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generation

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It is all through Brands which have cannibalized every aspect of

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Our Lives.

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We live in a world of privatization which has

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slithered into every aspect of life. All experiences

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are branded and all spaces are those

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of consumption increasingly sustainable consumption.

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Company by an army of henchmen the private security

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guard

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Brands impersonate political struggles like the performative

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solidarity. We are witnessing by French female artists

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cutting their hair in solidarity with the Iranian protests

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that were sparked after the death of Masa amini

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the 22 year old woman who was detained by

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Iran's morality police for wearing the hijab to loosely.

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I started thinking about how much of a role

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design plays in this development.

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Now while design is not recognized as a critical area

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of study the lack of

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seriousness, it is given undermines the power it has to

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form.

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future aided the blurring of need and desire by manufacturing

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desire

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designers are the creators and keepers of neoliberal Dreams.

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And when I refer to designers, I am also referring to

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the industry, but but also calling on those

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designers who can use their Collective power to begin to

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change the industry.

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Designers as my colleague Nikki Wallace argues are

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also agents who are capable of taking action

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that contravenes the recursive practices that are

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visible in industry.

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Norms so I start the journey at a hotel

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To help us save the environment. Please reuse your towel. The

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sign urges the guests.

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The same bathroom where the sign hangs you will find a small

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bottle of body wash another one for shampoo and

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conditioner a bar of soap rolled in paper with a

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sticker on top a plastic cup wrapped in plastic or

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paper and Nescafe sashes.

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associate sorry

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the situation is what I call the contradictions

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of sustainability.

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Contradictions of sustainability are all around us.

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From the airport regulations that require you to fit all toiletries into

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100 milliliter bottles in a plastic bag and

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having to dump any drink even if under a

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hundred milliliters.

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through

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secure force you to buy another one wrapped in plastic.

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To the culture The Cutlery wrapped in plastic or

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the paper cups and bottles and the packaged food

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on the airline to the reusable plastic bag initiatives.

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They are referred to as contradictions because the very companies

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who preach about their sustainable practices are the

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ones driving the

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problem. Why are we?

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So not answer this question today. I will attempt to

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die further into the issue and explore the reason behind why

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we find these initiatives.

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something called

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unique

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so tucked away at the bottom of their web page visitors will

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find a link to something called sustainability.

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And in the store there is a transparent donation box visually

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demonstrating their mission to unlocking the

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power of clothing.

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Unique closed three pillars are people planet

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and community.

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So Uniqlo is a fast fashion brand not attempting

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to reduce the amount of clothing. They produce they

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remain like the entire fashion industry married to

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Seasons, but to donate unwanted Goods

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to disaster victims and socially vulnerable groups

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working with the charity goods for good amongst other

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recycling initiatives.

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The continent of Africa being the world's recycling bin with

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a substantially higher number of goods donated there

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than anywhere else in the world.

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This is good intention sustainability.

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Unique closed sustainability Mission claims the

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company wants to turn the power of clothing into

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a Force for good by making and selling

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good clothing that is made to last.

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It's comfortable and pleasurable without excessive burden

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on the environment and under good read non-swed

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shop environments.

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Now I am not opposed to a company making these claims, but

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they can use their power to reduce the amount of

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Collections and garments produced.

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challenging the seasonal notion and offering staple

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Comfortable necessary items that to

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me is working towards a more just

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and sustainable Society.

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Unfortunately, like many Brands Uniqlo

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seduces audience of its good nature of

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his good-natured business through infographics that simplified

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complicated processes.

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So many sustainability initiatives are no

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more than buyback.

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Edition buyback programs signal the danger

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of short-term decision-making and the dangers of seeking out

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simplic.

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times buying back requires people to

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jump through multiple Hoops to acquire it.

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Whether by requiring multiple pieces of personal information

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to ensure one, in fact did purchase the product

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from them or by claiming to have a system in

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place, which suddenly is being reviewed or by putting a

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time limit on store credit or minimum spend.

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The final offer is always worth less than the labor.

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Involved so these initiatives only increase consumption.

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Cycle close through them feel good by

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doing.

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And get money off your next t-shirt.

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How can we begin to think differently if every company that

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has the ability to enact change comes up with

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short-term?

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and silly Solutions

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available brands make claim green credentials, but

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like others before them. They use the same

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techniques to keep you consuming.

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Take 10 pounds off your next order free delivery or

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20% off your next purchase. Just stay

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with us.

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Buyback programs only divert the

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problem elsewhere far away from our eyes to secondhand

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markets and landfills in countries like Ghana and Chile

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and little is known on pre and post-production waste.

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In the last two decades the second hand clothing Market valued at

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36 billion dollars and the second hand

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electronic Market has exploded.

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But they're so-called revolutions ignore how this

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benefits those who handles the waste generated.

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System itself does not make recycling Goods easier.

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Recycling old electronics is not a simple

272
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:41,600
process and although companies state that you can recycle old

273
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,900
Goods you have to purch.

274
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:44,800
ASE irrecycle

275
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We dispose turn around and feel good

276
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,100
about ourselves as illustrated by the image on the screen

277
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:55,600
which signals that by putting it beside the bin. It

278
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,200
is now someone else's responsibility to take care of this.

279
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,400
There are supposed strategies being put in place to manage

280
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:04,200
end of life.

281
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,800
number 23 when not to design

282
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:17,200
Stakeholder and investor pressure on carbon emissions

283
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,400
are easier than discussing labor conditions.

284
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,800
So instead of focusing on the second hand market for close

285
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,100
electronics cars products and

286
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:29,400
so on there should be an emphasis on making less things that

287
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,600
actually last and changing people's mindsets around

288
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,900
ownership of tools that are used in frequently and

289
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:36,900
are better shared.

290
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:41,300
Continuing to take planned obsolescence in mind is the reason we have

291
00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:42,500
a huge second-hand Market.

292
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,700
a fashion brands is propped up by a whole industry of sustainable

293
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:54,400
shopping initiatives and organizations that measure

294
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,400
Some of these are genuinely calling out the problems, but others

295
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,300
are increased forms of greenwashing. I draw

296
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:03,100
on two examples.

297
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:06,800
The first is good on you.

298
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,400
a website that urges you to wear the change you want to see

299
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:14,700
state that it is a group of campaigners fashion professionals

300
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,300
scientists writers and developers who

301
00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:20,900
have come together to have a real impact using the

302
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,900
one powerful weapon. We all have in common.

303
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:24,900
ability to choose

304
00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:30,700
good on you seeks to choose and reward responsible fashion

305
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:32,300
brands that do good for a

306
00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:33,200
more sustainable and

307
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,800
Fair they use expert analysis to conduct their work and contribute

308
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,000
to the UN sustainable development goals

309
00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:44,400
Similarly to most initiatives it is a political.

310
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,500
Framing it in an apolitical way makes us accept everything

311
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:49,200
as a given.

312
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,600
As easily sold and packaged.

313
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,000
in their analysis of Nike

314
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:57,700
the company as it may not be a big change, but

315
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:00,900
and here lies the problem.

316
00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:04,400
We continue to encourage good intentions and now

317
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,100
everything is a small change and yet none are

318
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:10,300
making big changes moreover. It skims through

319
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:13,300
the open documentation of Nike's use of sweatshops using

320
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:15,100
forced labor, but hey,

321
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,800
the second example is Shady Club an image-based Chrome

322
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,500
browser plugin that identifies which products

323
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,500
are sustainable as

324
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,600
You shop it uses visual icons to identify the rating typically using

325
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,800
the green Amber red to do so, which if you've

326
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,300
ever heard me speak reminds me of being on

327
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:40,100
the terrorist because yes, I'm an Arab and that's what it

328
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:41,000
resonates with me.

329
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:44,200
And directs you to a more sustainable brand.

330
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,700
Seek out information on how they have developed and collated

331
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,400
this data. You will find a coming soon under their

332
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:52,300
frequently asked questions.

333
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,700
So this is the extent of our imagin.

334
00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:05,800
ation form of awareness campaign that seeming seemingly

335
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,200
thinks it will disrupt a whole

336
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:08,600
indust

337
00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:13,600
ry of our imagination are found in the products and services pushed

338
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,700
through by Instagram and

339
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:16,600
Facebook to entice you to

340
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,700
buy many of these take Basics. So for example cotton buds

341
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,400
cotton cotton swabs laundry detergent

342
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,300
lunch bedding and add some sustainable

343
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,400
features and copy about how the old way is not working

344
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,100
and

345
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,500
But the new way is the old way with a

346
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:35,100
slight twist.

347
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:39,700
The differences are almost always superficial suffering

348
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:41,500
from futureitis. There is

349
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:44,200
no look no real look into the

350
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,600
system that cause this product to be unsustainable to

351
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,800
begin with and like most design Solutions. It's

352
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,500
a quick fix.

353
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:55,400
And thanks to the internet and social media platforms products that

354
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,000
are still in beta are being pushed.

355
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:01,500
It is the same manufacturing processes and the same problems with

356
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:03,400
the promise of a longer lasting product.

357
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:08,100
The consumer capitalist system generates problems of

358
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,600
waste excess obesity Etc and they counter this

359
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:12,700
with commodified Solutions.

360
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:16,900
So think of the low fat calorie options like McDonald's offering

361
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:17,300
salads.

362
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,600
It is the same when replacing plastic with compostable

363
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,300
and biode.

364
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,400
Grade, this only fuels the problem. It gives people the illusion

365
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,500
they can consume even more because it is not harmful

366
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:30,200
to the environment.

367
00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:34,500
but also has the inventor of the paper LED and the paper straw

368
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:37,400
really considered how ineffective a material it is for this function that

369
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,900
It is I know that you're thinking it too.

370
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,500
Moreover recycling systems are not necessarily in place

371
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:49,100
to support these new materials and let us not address how

372
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,500
confusing most if not all people find the recycling

373
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:52,800
system.

374
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:57,300
Recycling for most people still appears to be the only way

375
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,200
the Earth will be saved recycling is a powerful

376
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,200
brand with a strong story because it relies on how

377
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,800
little people know about material sourcing production volumes

378
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,000
input substitution and property acquisition and

379
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:12,300
not to mention understanding the recycling symbols.

380
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:14,200
The more you recycle the

381
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,400
more Kickstarter Instagram Facebook and the market

382
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,600
overall contains an increasing number of Commodities and

383
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,700
lifestyles on offer, but they oft.

384
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:30,000
En we then throw them out and other replace others replace them.

385
00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:31,300
quicker than

386
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:36,800
ever acquire the lifestyles you want pursue pleasure instant gratification

387
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,600
and self-realization through easy credit and contactless

388
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:40,000
payments.

389
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,400
The acquisition of debt submits us to the economic

390
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,100
status quo.

391
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,300
Our transactions are surveyed to push more content through platforms

392
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:49,100
to buy more.

393
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,100
less friction more consumption as the ux/ui Mantra

394
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:55,000
goes and this will only increase

395
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:58,500
2022 Instagram Trend report states that

396
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:00,300
one in four teenagers and young people

397
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:01,200
27%

398
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,300
shop directly via social media

399
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,100
A statistics they will a statistically will surely.

400
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,500
Even Google has worked out a way to make your shopping experience easier.

401
00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:14,000
scanning of

402
00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:18,700
Yours but a saturated Market leads to anxiety.

403
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,600
Designers work on developing new ways of interacting

404
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,600
with the abundance of choice that paralyzes consumers.

405
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,900
Think of the video story experience versus the decision-making anxiety

406
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:34,000
of the streaming service interface remains unsolved.

407
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:39,400
Worse yet is the normalization of the cost

408
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,200
of living crisis.

409
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,500
The guides produced by companies to help

410
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:47,300
you save money through investing in electricity saving

411
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,400
gadgets and advice from governments and

412
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,500
business on how to stay warm this winter.

413
00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:55,400
Is any form of suffering can be exploited for gain

414
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,600
and the power for the of the disimagination machine the

415
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,500
cultural apparatuses undermining our ability to

416
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,900
think critically imagine the unimagin.

417
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,700
Come critically.

418
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:09,300
of the world

419
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,100
think for a minute

420
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:20,300
all the products designers have developed King at

421
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:22,000
the time. This is a need.

422
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:24,300
This will make money. This is genius.

423
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:29,000
returning to my introduction products like SodaStream medicine

424
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,500
Fitbits. I know this is quite controversial to

425
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:33,700
talk about.

426
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:35,600
the portable fans

427
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,800
banana peelers everything in the shop Flying Tiger which

428
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,400
continues to manufacture nonsensical objects and

429
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,400
charges you a bag and claims a

430
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,700
sustainable laundry tablets coffee pods, the

431
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,700
whole universe of accessories around around phones

432
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:52,800
and so on and so forth.

433
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:56,700
nor the

434
00:21:57,300 --> 00:21:58,100
complete World in which we

435
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:02,300
we choose to look at the simplest way forward and fixate on

436
00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:04,600
technology to fix our problems away.

437
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,400
Different materials will solve our planetary Extinction while

438
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,000
consumption levels remain the same.

439
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:11,100
Why?

440
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,000
I outlined the three reasons why in their imagining Futures

441
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,800
designers are becoming conservative or arbitrary as

442
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:19,900
stated by John Chris Jones.

443
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,500
one copying outward from

444
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,400
form of what came before?

445
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:29,500
refuge in personal sense of artistry and

446
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:31,700
three economics Chief materials

447
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,700
for Jones designers are aggregating responsibility

448
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:37,700
hence creating further problems.

449
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:40,500
Is where designers need to think about?

450
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:42,600
when not

451
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,200
of course someone can always claim this product

452
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:47,800
is useful.

453
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:50,900
If you take soda stream.

454
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,500
coffee pods away

455
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,300
something artificial it is not the same as making a

456
00:22:59,300 --> 00:22:59,500
species.

457
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,200
Now taking away. All Plastics will actually have

458
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,400
consequences because as scholar Max Lebron

459
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,400
cautions not all Plastics.

460
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,600
Are I quote them at length?

461
00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:16,600
For example, the term single-use Plastics includes medical

462
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,100
Plastics disposable packaging and other items.

463
00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:22,500
Conflating them can cause harm particularly when

464
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:24,900
there are calls to ban all single-use Plastics.

465
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:28,400
without differentiating between medical Plastics while also

466
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,000
making them less toxic and other single-use Plastics or

467
00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:34,400
differentiating between PVC which is

468
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,300
full of toxic chemicals and silicone less so

469
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:40,400
or differentiating between plastic use and

470
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,000
plastic production

471
00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:44,200
It is impossible to be responsible to the

472
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,700
problems of ethics of PL.

473
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,900
Astic to one way to think about the relationships among differentiation

474
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:53,200
specificity ethics and

475
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,500
obligation in Plastics.

476
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,300
There's not even a

477
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,200
Wii I'm going to move briefly into another realm of

478
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,800
consumption large events

479
00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,600
During the covid-19 pandemic large sporting events conferences and

480
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,200
festivals were postponed taking place a year

481
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,400
later with limited AUD.

482
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:25,100
Tickles like that like the Olympics and the

483
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:28,400
World Cup see Millions spent on opening and closing Ceremonies for

484
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,700
a few hours of entertainment.

485
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,400
surely need to look more closely at our obsession with

486
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,300
after all as outlined by Mark Perryman and his

487
00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:41,600
book on the Olympics the Olympic torch relay was quote an

488
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,400
invention of the Nazis brought to you by Adolf Hitler

489
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,600
with Stage production by Joseph gobbels.

490
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:49,400
for the 1936 Berlin Olympics

491
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:53,500
To relay was originally intended to showcase the Rachel the

492
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:56,200
racial superiority of the Aryan Nation as the

493
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,100
flame traveled.

494
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,400
around instead our solution

495
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:02,200
is he can make these events?

496
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,800
More however, prior to the 1980s the Olympics

497
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,300
celebrated amateurism and were

498
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:14,100
not as corporate. I'm a tourism the

499
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:15,700
theme

500
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:20,000
let's talk this all changed after the 1984 Summer

501
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,200
Games in Los Angeles with both the

502
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,600
commercialization of the games and professionalization of

503
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,000
the athletes, which have been key to the dramatic transformation

504
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:31,300
of the Olympics into what they are today.

505
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:38,200
Interestingly the design of the identity of the 1984 Olympics

506
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,300
by the late Deborah assessment and Paul

507
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:44,400
praja reflected this by being absolutely everywhere.

508
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:48,800
Finally, we should remember that traveling fans were

509
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,100
not as common as they are now, which was made

510
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:54,200
easier by the deregulation of European air travel.

511
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,400
in the late 80s and led to the rise of cheap budget

512
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:57,800
Airlines

513
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:01,500
the Olympics and any large sporting event are

514
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:04,700
designed to serve the interests of the international Olympic

515
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:05,000
Committee.

516
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:08,600
maintaining and defending their very particular model

517
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:09,200
of the

518
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,400
Olympics and not the needs of the host City and Nation

519
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,300
Well now we Cline wrote no logo over

520
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:23,600
20 years ago. The world was asking if your sneakers

521
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,600
are no sweat your rugs rugmark your

522
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,200
soccer balls Child free your moisturizers cruelty

523
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,900
free your coffee fair trade now.

524
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:35,800
It is all about how clean or plant-based or

525
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,700
vegan or carbon neutral you are.

526
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,700
Find cautioned back in 1999. Some

527
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:43,900
of these initiatives have genuine Merit.

528
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,900
But the challenges of a global labor market are too vast

529
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:49,600
to be defined or Limited.

530
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:56,500
By changed other than the marketing copy and Brands signaling how

531
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:57,200
good they are.

532
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:01,800
The brands pushed by Instagram in our feeds only talk

533
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,800
about the impact of the materials used.

534
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,500
Calling something natural or plant-based strips away

535
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:08,100
complexity.

536
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:12,700
Simplifying the process into the dualist and binary Cartesian way

537
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:13,700
of viewing the world.

538
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:15,500
moreover as

539
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:19,800
We pressure companies to tackle their materials, but

540
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,300
we do not focus on the invisible labor behind the

541
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:23,500
objects. We consume.

542
00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:27,300
How much pressure is on changing business operations and Supply

543
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:27,700
chains?

544
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,400
In no logo, which itself emphasized the

545
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,800
severity of a situation that seems on reflection much

546
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,000
simpler than what we are facing. Now Cline outlined

547
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,700
quote for the system to function smoothly

548
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:43,800
workers must know little of the marketed lives

549
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,500
of the products. They produce and consumers must

550
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:49,300
remain sheltered from the production lives of the brands. They

551
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:49,600
buy

552
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:51,800
other words

553
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:55,100
list economy is one of the good life and one of

554
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:58,600
way and waste must be disposed of without being seen.

555
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,600
Forced labor remains an even more growing problem in

556
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,700
many sectors including Services manufacturing construction

557
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:09,500
and agriculture manufacturing accounts for

558
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:13,100
one fifth over 3 million people globally of forced

559
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:15,400
labor exploitation of adults in the lower

560
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,100
tiers of domestic or Global Supply chains, whereas Services

561
00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:21,800
accounts for one third over 5.5 million

562
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:22,000
people.

563
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,200
The demands of Greater social and environmental responsibility is

564
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,500
missing a key demand.

565
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:32,500
Markup of products is close to 400% in some

566
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:34,300
instances due to low labor costs.

567
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,100
Workers are working between 12 to 16 hours often.

568
00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:40,300
These are young women who work for contractors or

569
00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:43,700
subcontractors or filling orders for larger companies based

570
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:46,200
in the US Canada Germany, Japan or the

571
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:46,200
UK?

572
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,000
Low, skill tedious work for below subsistence wages

573
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,600
and foreign abusive boss.

574
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,800
Denying someone's freedom and their economic and social agency to

575
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:58,800
make the goods we consume.

576
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,600
Change would require pressure on businesses and the governments where

577
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,700
they do business to implement new policies to prevent

578
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:09,200
abuse from businesses operating in

579
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:09,800
their jurisdiction.

580
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:13,300
Where there is respect for human rights and their operations and Supply

581
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:13,600
chains.

582
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:18,300
Companies are presenting social accountability. They have to

583
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:21,700
live up to it while some do sophisticated design

584
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:24,600
and copy can highlight certain wins, but

585
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,000
hide

586
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:26,100
the untruths

587
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:28,400
down are we presenting data?

588
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,500
Since now include labor Provisions, however, only about one

589
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,500
third of trade agreements from the last decade contained Provisions

590
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,200
relating specifically to freedom from Forced labor and

591
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,100
other fundamental rights at work.

592
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,800
In addition there remains secrecy around production volumes.

593
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:48,300
Brands disclose the supplier policy but little

594
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:49,800
disclose how it is implemented.

595
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:53,200
one third of major fashion brands score between

596
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,700
zero to 10% on the fashion transparency index

597
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,000
secrecy on suppliers policies and commitments persist

598
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:03,800
because international trading rules do not enforce

599
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,400
these measures nor prevent companies from paying

600
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,400
low wages selling off factories and making deals

601
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,000
with dictators.

602
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,000
If there's so many more initiatives around sustainable

603
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:19,400
business, why are we consuming more and

604
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,600
wasting resources at an even quicker pace?

605
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,300
Because growth is the goal and growth is the

606
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:29,800
only supposed way to finance the sustainable practices companies aspire

607
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:29,900
to

608
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,900
the promise is for doing better cutting carbon

609
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,600
emissions and so on and so forth remain empty promises

610
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,400
if the main Drive is profit and growth

611
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,100
The same logic of planned obsolescence lies behind the

612
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:47,100
sustainable products. We are now being exposed to convincing you

613
00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:48,100
of something new and better.

614
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,200
Buying a more sustainable version you are saving the

615
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,100
Earth from Oblivion.

616
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,600
And she products continue and will continue to get

617
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:55,900
made.

618
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,000
Newer sustainable products are priced that a premium.

619
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,000
attracting

620
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:06,100
a segment of society and signaling to

621
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,600
those that cannot afford it that this is not for them.

622
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:13,000
How expensive second hand clothing or so-called sustainable

623
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:15,300
products are should have us thinking about why the

624
00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:16,300
other stuff is so cheap.

625
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:19,300
We all know people tend to overvalue things.

626
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:23,400
Think of the price of homes or how people sell H&M tops they

627
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,100
bought for 20 pounds for over 40 pounds on Online Marketplace.

628
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,000
As the saying goes only the rich can afford to

629
00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:30,600
buy cheap.

630
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:34,300
Everyone should have access to good quality products that last

631
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:36,800
as I've written elsewhere.

632
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,200
Convenience is the most underestimated and

633
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,200
least understood force in the world today.

634
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400
All around the world convenience more efficient and easier

635
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,400
ways of doing personal tests has emerged as perhaps the

636
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,500
most powerful driver shaping our individual lives and

637
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:53,400
our economies.

638
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:57,000
Convenience seems to make our decisions for us.

639
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,700
Think what we like to imagine are our true preferences.

640
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,700
Easy is better easiest is best.

641
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,400
While convenience has its benefits it also has a

642
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,400
dark side. It makes us lazy spoiled by

643
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,200
immediacy.

644
00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:14,500
the glamor of throwing

645
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,500
culture from the post-war period that led to

646
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:20,900
the culture of convenience should be abolished instead. We

647
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:23,200
should remove the idea that repairs and the

648
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,100
time it takes to repair are not cost-effective.

649
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,800
But we cannot expect everyone to sud.

650
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:30,400
Denly able to repair things themselves.

651
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:34,400
basic repair skills should be taught at a young age to

652
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,400
help people gain the confidence to mend their garments and fix their

653
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,600
Electronics now while objects have become easier to use

654
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:42,800
delusion of

655
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,800
seamotherians we have lost the ability to control how things

656
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:47,100
work.

657
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,400
to take them apart and to question the assumptions that

658
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:50,900
guide their

659
00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:54,000
creation as an experience is

660
00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:56,900
Cliff Quang writes the more opaque it becomes

661
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,400
our gadgets now make our decisions for us and we sit

662
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,500
back and accept it for the sake of convenience.

663
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:09,800
So far, I have focused on Industrial consumption

664
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,100
looking at Fashion products and

665
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:12,600
services.

666
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,300
But the aviation industry accounts for over 2.5%

667
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,900
of global CO2 emissions roughly

668
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:21,900
speaking because of how emissions are attributed.

669
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:26,200
The street also produces millions of tons of cabin waste due

670
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,300
to strict restrictions put on food safety hygiene fresh

671
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,400
hygiene freshness and so on and rules imposed to

672
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,300
avoid disease transfer therefore catering is often

673
00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:38,600
incinerated or buried in landfill preventing reuse

674
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,100
and recycling.

675
00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:43,300
Interestingly over the last 20 years Airlines have developed

676
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:46,300
inventive ways to cut costs including developing a

677
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:49,900
whole bag industry around the low cost Airlines a

678
00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:52,300
travel-sized toiletries industry and not

679
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:54,100
to mention the bottled water phenomenon.

680
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:57,300
Surely they can develop innovative solutions to this

681
00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:57,700
problem.

682
00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,100
Here's their solution.

683
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:06,400
It's difficult not to be amused by the Paradox that Ryanair offers

684
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,100
you the option to offset your emissions for a

685
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:09,800
small fee.

686
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,000
After they've bombarded you with all the other add-ons.

687
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:16,800
After you've gotten your hotel your car your insurance your meals.

688
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,300
Airlines will continue to fly and it will continue to

689
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:24,500
be keeper to fly from London to any European city due

690
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,500
to Transportation infrastructure and costs.

691
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,300
And why should I be inconvenience with all the changes required to

692
00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:33,000
reach my destination for a higher price on a train?

693
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,200
Of course. It is far worse in North America where lobbying efforts by

694
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,700
car manufacturers contributed to poor transportation systems.

695
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:42,100
And flying as much easier.

696
00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:46,600
To think that in countries with the largest land mass in the world. There

697
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,400
are no bullet trains.

698
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:49,300
Such as the power of lobbying.

699
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:53,700
And even as Financial collapse and environmental disaster Loop, there

700
00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:56,400
is no pressure on changing things on reevaluating the

701
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,400
systems that continue to support this there is only pressure

702
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:00,600
on Greening Airlines.

703
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:05,200
Now another industry whose carbon footprint outweighs most

704
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,500
countries and is seldom discussed is the military.

705
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,600
The US Department of Defense has a larger carbon footprint

706
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,500
and emits more carbon dioxide than nation states

707
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:16,600
on their own according to Nessa Crawford.

708
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,400
The military is a space where design engineering and

709
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,600
Technology Thrive a space where future technology develops

710
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,200
at the expense of people's lives which then turns to

711
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,100
seemingly harmless commercial Technologies.

712
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:32,700
standardization component interchangeability actually came

713
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,400
from US government agencies and the methods developed

714
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,500
quickly became the global system of

715
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,800
War doesn't just cost lives

716
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:42,400
costs

717
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:45,000
it costs the environment.

718
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,800
Over the last 45 minutes. Have I been speaking?

719
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:54,100
Before 45 minutes. I'm not sure. I'm not keeping my eye on the clock. I don't know how

720
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:54,900
much longer I have.

721
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:56,800
Am I okay?

722
00:35:57,700 --> 00:35:58,300
Yeah good.

723
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,200
So over the last 45 minutes, I have outlined the problems of

724
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,100
the sustainable Market. However

725
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:12,600
If we look at these products from the standpoint of the term sustainability, then

726
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,900
they are doing exactly that sustaining.

727
00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:19,100
The main delivery of sustainability as it was originally popularized

728
00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:20,000
as economic.

729
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:23,700
Therefore my title is incorrect because

730
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:24,600
there are no contr.

731
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:28,200
Adictions so we do exactly as the system wants us to

732
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:28,300
do.

733
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,500
We blame nature rather than understand this as a condition. We have

734
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,600
created ourselves, but I use the terms sustainability

735
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,200
because it is difficult to get rid of.

736
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,400
And the term itself is fueled by global initiatives such as the UN

737
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:42,600
sustainable development goals.

738
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:46,900
There is much Reliance in faith on big Global governance organizations

739
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,900
and Foundations such as Bill Gates Foundation Ellen

740
00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:52,800
MacArthur Foundation the world economic Forum the IMF

741
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,600
the UN sustainable development goals

742
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,500
The proposed Global strategies have not accomplished much.

743
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:01,100
They are devised by and on behalf of the

744
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:03,300
dominant global system capitalism.

745
00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:05,400
And those who created the conditions?

746
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:09,400
For climate crisis are the same ones setting and controlling

747
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,300
the interests of fighting it by setting the debate and

748
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:14,100
the conditions for the debate to take place.

749
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,200
Reducing one's plastic consumption and attaining is

750
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,600
zero waste life are a much easier sell than questioning

751
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,300
Injustice iniquity and environmental catastrophe.

752
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:26,500
moreover placing

753
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:29,400
the origins of environmental destruction nearer to

754
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,100
the 1800 to the 1800 Industrial Revolution denies

755
00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:35,200
that the system that led to modern day

756
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,600
climate crisis in the first place is colonialism.

757
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,800
Centuries long effort to dominate other peoples and exert

758
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,400
political and economic control over other Terror over

759
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,100
their territories.

760
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,200
Colonialism facilitated a system

761
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,500
of resource extraction that not only includes practices such

762
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:55,500
as fossil fuel manufacturing but also clear cutting

763
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:58,500
of forests industrial Agriculture and water

764
00:37:58,500 --> 00:37:59,600
intensive mining.

765
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,500
All these practices fed industrialization and a

766
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:06,500
culture of consumption that neatly tracked the rise of greenhouse

767
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:08,400
gas concentrations in the atmosphere.

768
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,100
Resource extraction hinges on the displacement of

769
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:15,400
indigenous peoples a reality that is intentionally hidden from

770
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,500
most of the world in an attempt to justify a business as

771
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:18,600
usual.

772
00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:22,100
One only needs to look at the media coverage of the

773
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:25,400
Pakistan floods where Millions were displaced and millions still

774
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,700
walk through water. The effects of ecological catastrophe

775
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,000
is something that happens to Brown bodies elsewhere.

776
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,400
The continuation of these practices makes CR

777
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:38,200
permanent condition caused not by natur

778
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,300
E but by the system's humans have created.

779
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:44,200
The emergence of the coronavirus pandemic is a case in

780
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:44,300
point.

781
00:38:45,300 --> 00:38:48,400
This was a consequence of our hyper consumption our

782
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,800
Waste Systems the privatization of our essential Services the

783
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,000
exploitation and oppression of people all over the world.

784
00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:58,200
Covid may have changed the world, but it did not change anything about how we

785
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:58,500
think.

786
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,200
This leaves us wondering if we are unable to reflect on

787
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,400
the root causes of our unsustainable world. Will we

788
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,300
just be as unprepared for the next pandemic?

789
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,400
We must work to unlearn viewing sustainability as just another

790
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,200
what's in it for me situation.

791
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,500
To conclude I would like to look at some possibilities of Designing

792
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:18,800
over.

793
00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:23,500
There are many Advocates of Designing over time, but I would like to expand the

794
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:26,600
picture to touch on design but beyond product services and

795
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,800
propose more General ideas.

796
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:30,700
The first is consumer anticipation.

797
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:34,600
After well over a decade of creating consumer

798
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,000
anticipation for new devices.

799
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:38,800
How does this then become an unlearned?

800
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:43,300
And we could consider imposing rules on smartphone giants

801
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:44,500
like Apple and Samsung.

802
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,200
So what if phones were made to last in constructed in

803
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,500
a way where they did not require a secondary Market of screen protectors

804
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:52,100
and cases?

805
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:56,300
The second is modularity, which is slowly becoming

806
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:59,600
a design consideration with an increase in commercial products

807
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,600
that combine features in a meaningful way.

808
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:05,200
for example a bed that also has a side table

809
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,800
fitting by the brand reframed or a multifunctional pan

810
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,200
from the brand our place rather than having a

811
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:14,300
set of pans all having different functions.

812
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:18,200
Solutions are simple, but they take a critical look at

813
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,900
our obsession with feature writers.

814
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,000
Problem fueled by a lack of critical design education that

815
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:26,800
fails to educate designers in developing literacy in

816
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:27,900
dealing with complexity.

817
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,400
In understanding the unintended consequences of what we make before

818
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,400
and after it.

819
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,500
from an obsession with outcomes

820
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,300
a designer can go a long way in looking at an object

821
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,200
and thinking what was going through the designer's head when

822
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:43,200
they first designed it.

823
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,300
Challenge of Designing over time is to get designers and this

824
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:50,700
also applies to anyone facing challenges not just designers to

825
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:53,700
go back to the moment. Something was designed created.

826
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:56,300
Why was it designed this way?

827
00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:59,300
What were the conditions and the context in which

828
00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:00,300
this came to be?

829
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:04,100
modularity considers replacing pieces of

830
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:05,500
an object rather than the whole

831
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:08,700
however, replacing objects remains a difficult

832
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:12,500
and rather buying a whole new one is easier and

833
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:15,100
cheaper and how often should we replace our

834
00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:15,600
objects?

835
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:19,400
Should tags be implemented to remind us how to care for things

836
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:20,400
or extend their life.

837
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:24,400
What about repair to repeat my earlier statement or

838
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,200
repair culture requires the creation of conditions to

839
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:27,900
enable it?

840
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,400
Such as training people in repair at an

841
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:31,800
early age.

842
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,400
The placeability and refillability are being considered by

843
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,400
smaller Brands but bigger Brands and companies who have

844
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,700
the larger market share are falling behind.

845
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:44,600
Third designing over time is not only looking

846
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,100
at the material outcome and placing the designer at the

847
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:47,800
end of the process.

848
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,400
But understanding the different positions designers have in

849
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,000
the system by learning to engage the entire ecosystem.

850
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,600
What restrictions are considered before making a thing?

851
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,900
For example how serious our conversations about abolishing

852
00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:03,200
seasons for the fashion industry.

853
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,600
Or considering modular wardrobes or moving

854
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,800
away from a focus on materials and landfill and demanding Humane

855
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:10,400
labor conditions.

856
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,700
and pay for the very people who make our

857
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,700
fourth designing over time means looking at Necessities

858
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:20,700
such as water heating in the internet as communal

859
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,200
rather than individual commodities.

860
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:27,000
I said I would return to the supermarket.

861
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:31,300
Supermarkets are one of the first places where we can begin to design

862
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:32,000
over time.

863
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,000
Throughout the last two years. We have realized the dangers of

864
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:38,500
a food system reliant on just in time delivery.

865
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:43,400
Leaving record high inflation and skyrocketing prices means

866
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,600
more and more people are struggling to afford groceries and

867
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,100
despite coming face to face with empty shells and

868
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:52,000
panic buying during a pandemic. We seem unable to

869
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:54,000
imagine an alternative to our food systems.

870
00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:58,200
There's a scene in the 1991 film Father of the

871
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,500
Bride where Steve Martin's character George Banks demonstrates

872
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:03,700
some nonsensical decisions at

873
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:09,300
Excuse me, sir. What are you doing?

874
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:11,600
I'll tell you what I'm doing.

875
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:15,400
I want to buy eight hot dogs and eight

876
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,400
hot dog buns to go with them. But no one sells eight hot

877
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,300
dog buns. They only sell 12 hot dog buns. So

878
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:24,500
I end up paying for four buns. I don't need so I

879
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:28,300
am removing the Superfluous buns. I'm sorry,

880
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:30,500
sir, but you're gonna have to pay for all 12 buns. They're

881
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:31,500
not marked individually.

882
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,400
Yeah, you want to know why?

883
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:38,400
Because some big shot over at the wiener company

884
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,700
got together with some big shot over at the bun company

885
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:44,500
and decided to rip off the American public because

886
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:48,300
they think the American public is a bunch of trusting nitwits

887
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:50,400
who papers need rather than

888
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,600
make a stink. Well, they're not ripping off this that wet

889
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,300
anymore because I'm not paying for one more thing. I don't need

890
00:43:56,300 --> 00:44:00,700
George Banks is saying no who's

891
00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:01,400
George Banks?

892
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:04,800
three

893
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,700
item of decisions made for the sake of cost and packaging

894
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:14,300
that end up contributing to food.

895
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,800
What if large supermarkets were required to be entirely refillable

896
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:19,400
where possible?

897
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:23,200
What if convenience products like chopped onions and garlic? Are you

898
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,300
really that busy and both buying were abolished to

899
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:28,500
make room for shopping based on need instead of

900
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,300
the rise of refillable stores and cooperatives are

901
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:35,300
welcome. But as Anne Larson argues, these are often

902
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,300
dismissed as offbeat boutiques frequented by hippies

903
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:41,500
in the upper classes while the vast majority of Us shop in

904
00:44:41,500 --> 00:44:41,800
supermarket.

905
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:48,300
In my work I push for radical action

906
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:51,200
against the political and economic Frameworks that shape

907
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:51,700
Our Lives.

908
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,300
In this talk, I worked through more simple propositions.

909
00:44:56,100 --> 00:44:59,600
The reason for this is because large-scale change and meaningful actions

910
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,600
demands planning.

911
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,500
And time instead, I propose what me and Pedro Olivera term

912
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:06,400
minor gestures.

913
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,200
Looking in terms of minor gestures allows us to work on the

914
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,300
very pervasiveness of the infrastructures of capital and

915
00:45:13,300 --> 00:45:13,900
colonialism.

916
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,300
At the same time minor gestures do not

917
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:20,200
is chew the necessity of addressing the structural causes of

918
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,400
inequality mental illness dehumanization and

919
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,500
environmental destruction.

920
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,700
minor gestures can be a way of destructuring and disarming

921
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:31,000
that which seems inevitable to escape from

922
00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:35,100
minor gestures are localized subversive acts that can be

923
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,900
performed to expand the limits of a given in closed system.

924
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,400
They are radical in the sense of exposing addressing and

925
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,700
tackling the root while they escape being caught or apprehended

926
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:46,500
by Common diminishing connotations.

927
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,200
most importantly minor gestures do not replace the

928
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,600
need and the demand to dismantle institutional power

929
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,500
nor the collective organized struggle towards

930
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:59,400
systemic change instead a minor

931
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,400
gesture is to be viewed as a buildup a place

932
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,100
to start but

933
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,400
the place we start is by addressing our crisis of

934
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:09,000
imagination.

935
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:13,300
Sisters thinking is about questioning basic assumptions. It should teach

936
00:46:13,300 --> 00:46:16,200
us to question the very terms of the things we think are just

937
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:16,700
normal.

938
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:20,000
Let us remove the shackles of the past that determine our

939
00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:23,400
future by relying on the same systematic patterns that produce the

940
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,000
previous problem and leave them to repeat those patterns.

941
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:29,800
To let go of the familiar and lay with the discomfort the

942
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,200
discomfort that can help imagine the world in you.

943
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:47,100
Thank you. That's fantastic. I really

944
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:50,200
enjoyed your talk. Thank you. Thanks. And I'm gonna open it up to

945
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,600
questions anyone online and please put

946
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,200
your question in the in the

947
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,100
question bit.

948
00:46:58,900 --> 00:47:01,200
Great. I've got a question up at the back. So I'm gonna run

949
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:02,100
around with the mic.

950
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:13,600
I there

951
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,300
was amazing. Thank you so much for doing this

952
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:16,800
into awesome words that I'm good.

953
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,600
Like going like that. Yeah, I was

954
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,100
really happy to end it with the with the discomfort and

955
00:47:23,100 --> 00:47:26,200
like the micro gestures because that was something I was thinking

956
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:26,300
about.

957
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:31,600
I've kind of like contributed to the fast fashion Myself by being

958
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,300
the product that promoted these products so

959
00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:38,700
I've both been unlikely high end of fashion and also like

960
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:41,200
the lower end. So I've bought one

961
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,400
outfit and then also shot like six racks in

962
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,400
a day where was on technically on click

963
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:49,000
off.

964
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,400
And I've been to this kind of like point where eventually

965
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,100
I didn't care about clothes anymore. So I just follow as long as

966
00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:59,600
they keep me warm. I'll be okay and then

967
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,200
you start noticing your surroundings. They're like, well all of

968
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,100
you you never you wear this like for so long. This is never like

969
00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:08,100
don't you need some new clothes don't you need some new things

970
00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:11,300
So eventually like I this makes you feel more comfortable

971
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:14,300
while going buy something else. Luckily. It was

972
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:17,700
something like a geodes certified. I hope that you can verify

973
00:48:17,700 --> 00:48:20,700
for me. That one is a correct label of

974
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:23,100
sustainability because I've been trying to find one and

975
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:24,400
it's very few out there.

976
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,400
and others also thinking about the thing that Matilda said

977
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:33,600
earlier in which like this this awkward of

978
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,400
vulnerability singing together in which you then

979
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,500
kind of like share this experience. I don't know how to put it towards exactly

980
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:42,800
but there's experience I had which is similar to that

981
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,000
one in dancing Where You Freestyle and you kind of

982
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:48,100
like have to dance. Well nobody's watching but everybody's watching

983
00:48:48,900 --> 00:48:51,000
And I feel like wearing.

984
00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:55,700
Like non-conformible clothes is kind of like that. It's like

985
00:48:55,700 --> 00:48:58,400
you're dancing the dance of like doing this

986
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,300
sustainable my mini gesture of like

987
00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:03,400
Breaking like breaking away from the system of

988
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,300
like clothing is it like they had stressing

989
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:09,300
certain way. So I love how you call it mini

990
00:49:09,300 --> 00:49:12,400
gestures and what worked in the freestyle sessions

991
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,900
what that every daring move that

992
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:18,400
somebody would perform that was out of their comfort zone

993
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,200
will be celebrated and seeing

994
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,300
that what they did for like building confidence and

995
00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:27,900
like having people try more things in that direction was very

996
00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:30,100
beautiful, and I think that miniature in that sense so

997
00:49:30,100 --> 00:49:34,100
not complementing each other on the nice

998
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:36,000
new clothes that you wear, but hey, I love

999
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:39,000
the tear that you have or it's so cool

1000
00:49:39,100 --> 00:49:42,100
that like I can see you where it is after this many years. I think

1001
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:45,700
those kind of small gestures as you beautifully name

1002
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,100
is also that very nice.

1003
00:49:48,100 --> 00:49:51,100
So, thank you and just what I

1004
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:54,300
wanted. It's like share from my side. Thank you.

1005
00:49:57,700 --> 00:50:00,400
Thanks. Do you want to

1006
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,300
respond to that dinner or should we just go to the next?

1007
00:50:04,100 --> 00:50:07,500
No, I'm happy to go to the next one. I think I just want to thank you for for

1008
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:10,500
sharing that I don't think you want me to respond, but you

1009
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:10,500
know.

1010
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:16,300
All right.

1011
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:21,900
So I'm happy to let you respond if you had something now, go

1012
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:22,800
ahead. It's I can.

1013
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:26,800
Maybe try through your question and try and Link them together. Sure.

1014
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,500
Yeah, I love the the clothes

1015
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:32,700
to the the speech is so powerful this concept of

1016
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:35,100
minor gestures. That's new for

1017
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:38,700
me. And the way you define it

1018
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:41,200
was really powerful and I just

1019
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,500
wondered if you could elaborate on that a bit more like would

1020
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:47,400
you have any specific examples or

1021
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,800
things that you define that

1022
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,900
way that you've seen that have been effective?

1023
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,900
Paper which is being in review, I guess at.

1024
00:51:00,300 --> 00:51:03,300
The moment. I hope no one here is the reviewer so, you know who's

1025
00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:04,200
written it and

1026
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:06,500
but

1027
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:12,000
to minor gestures in the context of Education particularly because

1028
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:15,100
that's the context in which we work and we

1029
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,100
we draw on a few examples.

1030
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:21,900
One of the main ones we talk about is we

1031
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:24,100
talk about language, but then we talk about this idea of

1032
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,600
spaces of disciplinary boundaries. So what happens when

1033
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,200
you create a module that isn't tied to

1034
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,600
one design specialism that actually begins to tackle these

1035
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,600
larger complex problems, and then the reactions of

1036
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,000
students have

1037
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:41,200
So we use that as one way of kind of

1038
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,200
a testing ground.

1039
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,200
For for kind of on the way

1040
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,200
to these decolonial acts, you know, these sort of

1041
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,300
minor gestures of what happens when a module is completely dedicated

1042
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:55,200
to this and we

1043
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,000
we discuss that so that's kind of one of

1044
00:51:58,100 --> 00:52:00,400
the examples another one of the examples that we used is around.

1045
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:04,900
Language of talking about Israel Palestine,

1046
00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:07,000
which is often referred to as a conflict, but it's

1047
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:07,700
not conflict.

1048
00:52:08,500 --> 00:52:09,000
we talk about

1049
00:52:11,300 --> 00:52:11,900
Physicians

1050
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:14,100
And calling things out.

1051
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:16,500
by Sir, it's

1052
00:52:17,100 --> 00:52:20,400
it's settler colonialism and so native and settler

1053
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,700
and that was kind of another aspect that we discussed.

1054
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,400
Hello. Sorry, I'm going to really struggle through this question

1055
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,600
because it's something I've been.

1056
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,700
Suppose grappling with struggling since the beginning of my career career

1057
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:40,800
and I started as a commercial to

1058
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,200
beautician. I don't know how many people in this

1059
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,100
room know what that is. So how it functions. It seems that

1060
00:52:46,100 --> 00:52:49,300
you may because I mean just pause the presentation

1061
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:52,300
was quite simultic very can. Yes,

1062
00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:56,000
essentially analyzing the underlying ideology

1063
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,500
and

1064
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:02,000
The youngest definition is needed and also

1065
00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:05,100
the communications behind and what signals

1066
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:07,400
and then how culture is changing and then how

1067
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,200
that then and informs what we

1068
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,700
do and how we Define things as well. And so it's

1069
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:16,700
supposed to go on from that. I came from the world were very

1070
00:53:16,700 --> 00:53:19,200
much. We would analyze these things and then be

1071
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:19,400
that

1072
00:53:20,300 --> 00:53:24,100
Voice for the brands of how to put into

1073
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:26,300
those changing meanings and

1074
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:29,400
how to stay relevant, right? The relevance your Brands is

1075
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,500
breeder the goal, but the

1076
00:53:33,500 --> 00:53:36,100
same time I'm so connected to that world. And I know

1077
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:39,500
a lot of people in it, you know, they also see those things that the

1078
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:42,600
jobs to understand who shifts and what we're

1079
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:43,100
contributing into

1080
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:47,300
and that in their own ways and trying to influence it

1081
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:47,500
and

1082
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,100
I decided to get out instead try to move

1083
00:53:51,100 --> 00:53:54,400
to service design and through that as opposed now trying to

1084
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,300
also understand systemic design, but I'm trying

1085
00:53:57,300 --> 00:54:00,300
to find ways in which maybe the two worlds

1086
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:00,500
could.

1087
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:04,400
I don't know feed into each other and I

1088
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,500
wonder how much do you see I suppose

1089
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:08,300
the question would be.

1090
00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:13,800
Is the potential at all and trying to influence things

1091
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,000
and that brand level of you know

1092
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,900
them impacting and changing from what we've been

1093
00:54:19,900 --> 00:54:22,200
through that kind of strategic, you know, the

1094
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,000
insights research and all that kind of strategic level and

1095
00:54:26,700 --> 00:54:29,500
or is it really a regulation and kind of

1096
00:54:29,500 --> 00:54:32,300
wider systems could there be together? I don't know

1097
00:54:32,300 --> 00:54:34,200
what I'm asking about. I hope that makes sense.

1098
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:39,100
Hard to see you this slide. So it's a little bit like, oh got so much better.

1099
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:41,100
But I also don't want to do that.

1100
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,600
I think this kind of what I'm trying to get to is that there's

1101
00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:48,200
you know it that idea of It kind of

1102
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,900
relating to back to a Naomi Klein was writing like Brands were very prevalent,

1103
00:54:51,900 --> 00:54:54,300
but it is if you can't get away from it

1104
00:54:54,300 --> 00:54:54,400
now.

1105
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,200
Every every space I mean you have like Nike TV on

1106
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:58,500
YouTube.

1107
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:01,300
Um, so it's become.

1108
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,600
and also this generation very much believes that these Brands

1109
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:06,700
can be the

1110
00:55:07,300 --> 00:55:08,900
road to change but

1111
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:10,400
the amount of

1112
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,100
research doing in the I'm sorry. You have to go here.

1113
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:15,400
the amount of research they're doing and all of the

1114
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,100
these fog of these fashion transparency indexes, all of these things

1115
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:23,600
that pop up that industry. They aren't really

1116
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,700
addressing regulations. They're kind of addressing that superficial

1117
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:29,200
and that sort of what I'm trying to get to is that you know, how much

1118
00:55:30,100 --> 00:55:32,900
are we tackling the real issues at hand rather than

1119
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,300
because again, this is like green washing on steroids at this

1120
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:38,200
point, right?

1121
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:41,300
And so for a brand if you just tell

1122
00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:42,900
them do the bare minimum, that's what they're going to do.

1123
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:44,800
because that's

1124
00:55:45,500 --> 00:55:48,500
that's just how they're allowed to operate. But if

1125
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:51,600
all of these different initiatives and if demands actually focus

1126
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,200
on the things that do cause real change then we're actually

1127
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,200
having a very different conversation and and that's what I was trying to push through

1128
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:57,800
through here.

1129
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:01,300
I'm not sure if that answers your question or yeah.

1130
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:04,200
Great.

1131
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:08,300
Thank you. I got one question on and then I'll come

1132
00:56:08,300 --> 00:56:12,500
to the person here. Okay. So,

1133
00:56:12,500 --> 00:56:15,600
okay, I'm gonna start we've

1134
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,700
actually got two questions online, but I'm going to start with this one from Neha

1135
00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:21,500
man and mandlik

1136
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,600
Mija asks, as you

1137
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,700
mentioned convenience being a major hurdle who designers

1138
00:56:27,700 --> 00:56:30,800
in this spectrum and the tendency of people perceiving

1139
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,700
convenience as a personal freedom. How

1140
00:56:33,700 --> 00:56:35,700
does one go about implying?

1141
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,400
These changes on a plethora of perspectives of

1142
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,100
life. That is our society.

1143
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,300
Can you repeat that? Yeah, I'll see tackle.

1144
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:51,100
so for designers

1145
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:54,200
as a major hurdle

1146
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,000
for designers in this spectrum

1147
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,700
and the tendency of people perceiving convenience as

1148
00:57:00,700 --> 00:57:01,700
a personal freedom.

1149
00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:05,100
How do you go about implying these

1150
00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:08,700
changes on all of the different perspectives that

1151
00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:11,500
is like in our society I guess. So, how

1152
00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:14,400
do we deal with that idea of you know

1153
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,600
freedom of choice and autonomy, I guess.

1154
00:57:17,500 --> 00:57:17,800
and

1155
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,500
okay convenience. I mean it's a

1156
00:57:21,100 --> 00:57:21,200
yes.

1157
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:25,500
It's question. I often get these at conferences.

1158
00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:27,800
I think people look at me as though I could answer.

1159
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:29,900
it I don't know most of the

1160
00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:33,100
rest and I'm very happy to sit in front of my students and say this as

1161
00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:33,900
well. I don't have

1162
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:36,300
All the answers, and I probably won't answer your question.

1163
00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:39,800
As as much but I'm can

1164
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,000
try to I think that you know, we helped.

1165
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:43,200
create

1166
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,200
this narrative around convenience and that becoming

1167
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,500
that freedom of choice and so perhaps it's

1168
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:53,700
using either those tools or activating new

1169
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:57,900
ones in order to change those mindsets. Obviously

1170
00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:59,400
the Doom and Gloom kind.

1171
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,400
Environmental catastrophe which is very much a reality for

1172
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,000
a lot of people far away. As I said, you know

1173
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,200
ecological catastrophes happening to bodies elsewhere. It's not happening here.

1174
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,100
So it's not problem for me.

1175
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,500
So I would say the same way that we helped create

1176
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:15,800
it.

1177
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:19,900
Do we help kind of unlearn it and and

1178
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:22,400
bring in new tools if I've understood your

1179
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,200
question correctly? I think I'll leave it there.

1180
00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:25,700
Thanks, Donna.

1181
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:28,100
It's a question in the audience.

1182
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:34,800
Thanks for the dark. I tried to make it quick but

1183
00:58:35,900 --> 00:58:38,000
a big back to Tom's question in the

1184
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,200
beginning of our our experiences so far with

1185
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,300
the conference because I'm not from systemic design

1186
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:47,100
like until two days ago. I didn't even know it's such

1187
00:58:47,100 --> 00:58:47,800
a specific thing.

1188
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:51,200
And I think it's great so far and I mean

1189
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,700
all you guys are really great. But one thing that confuses me

1190
00:58:54,700 --> 00:58:57,600
in the last days is negativity and

1191
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,700
almost that sarcasm at some point.

1192
00:59:00,900 --> 00:59:03,600
I don't want to be too much of this life coach

1193
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,400
thing. Right just change your mindset and be optimistic

1194
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,700
and everything's great. But still maybe I

1195
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:12,500
mean against that I might have two counter arguments

1196
00:59:12,500 --> 00:59:15,300
here what you were saying. And the first one

1197
00:59:15,300 --> 00:59:18,500
is this kind of don't we have to start somewhere, right?

1198
00:59:19,500 --> 00:59:20,100
thinking about

1199
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:21,400
ESG

1200
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,500
Sure, you can critique and of course, it's some green washing thing.

1201
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:28,500
It's being misused in many ways. But still

1202
00:59:28,500 --> 00:59:31,500
it's something that made a lot of companies think

1203
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:34,300
about their business practices and if there are

1204
00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:34,900
ways of changing them.

1205
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,500
So that's one thing doesn't make sense to just imply

1206
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:38,700
something.

1207
00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:42,200
's greenwash enough maybe at some point which has become green.

1208
00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:47,400
And the the second one would be this iteration and

1209
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,100
what I also everyone here, we all not

1210
00:59:49,100 --> 00:59:52,300
if we say, oh, yeah design is iterative and we have to try out many

1211
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:52,800
different options.

1212
00:59:53,900 --> 00:59:56,900
isn't one part of iteration also

1213
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:57,200
to

1214
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,700
bring things to the market and just put them out there and

1215
01:00:00,700 --> 01:00:03,500
then someone then we can come and say yeah, but actually it should

1216
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:04,500
take it back again.

1217
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:05,600
but it's

1218
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,400
you also you just have to do something and what I

1219
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:10,800
understand it's part of design to.

1220
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,800
To kind of try out things and put them out there.

1221
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,600
I hope that's not too chaotic. But I really like you to react

1222
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,600
to that. No, I'm happy with your critique. I mean sometimes to

1223
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,200
answer your last thing sometimes designers just need to stop making

1224
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:24,500
stuff. You know, it's just

1225
01:00:25,300 --> 01:00:29,400
When don't design in terms of the negativity,

1226
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,200
I?

1227
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,400
I won't be offended by that because I actually call myself a piss

1228
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,400
Optimist, which is that space between hope and despair.

1229
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:41,400
And that's the way I choose to inhabit and that's how

1230
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,200
I think most people shouldn't have it because it gives me this big

1231
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,500
critical mind. I think design suffers from too much

1232
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:50,000
ridiculous optimism. A lot

1233
01:00:50,300 --> 01:00:53,500
of these initiatives are very wishy-washy.

1234
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:57,500
And I think we need to call them out. We need to call them out because frankly it's

1235
01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,800
just you look at some of these you say

1236
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,400
if we green wash enough. Are we going to become green?

1237
01:01:04,700 --> 01:01:07,200
I mean, I see what you mean by the same as a kid. I just put something

1238
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,200
out there and then you know, I have to try it. But actually I think

1239
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,700
it's basically just been so much trial and so much good intentions

1240
01:01:13,700 --> 01:01:15,400
to the point that it's become.

1241
01:01:17,100 --> 01:01:20,600
Just it has just extreme negative effects.

1242
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,500
And so that's what I try to push this idea of critical thinking

1243
01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:27,400
I think it's very easy to see that and interpret that

1244
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:31,200
as negativity, but actually, you know, that's what

1245
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,800
my role is as someone

1246
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:34,900
who is in the academy.

1247
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:36,300
as well

1248
01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:39,200
and to try to

1249
01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:43,300
kind of I guess.

1250
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,100
I want my students to go out and think critically

1251
01:01:47,100 --> 01:01:50,800
about what they make in the world. They inhabit beyond

1252
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,500
their little bubble, but they had

1253
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:56,400
And really think about the impact it has everywhere

1254
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,200
to I think that's what you're not going to get that with

1255
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,300
optimism. I think there's been like a Whole Decade of

1256
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:04,600
optimism around design and what has it gotten us to

1257
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,300
not very much. It's still not even seen as a critical discipline so

1258
01:02:08,300 --> 01:02:10,600
I could just be speaking to a room in this not gonna go anywhere.

1259
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:15,100
Stuff it doesn't have that much impact. But yeah,

1260
01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:16,000
I mean I

1261
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,100
yeah, that's I guess that's my my response to it.

1262
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:27,600
A question in two parts,

1263
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:28,900
or maybe two questions.

1264
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:31,900
Can design be a political?

1265
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,500
Or come systemic design

1266
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:40,500
or is systemic design something about generating new

1267
01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:41,200
ideologies.

1268
01:02:46,700 --> 01:02:50,800
Kind of straightforwardly. No, I don't think so because I'm

1269
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,200
gonna quote Michael Beirut who says

1270
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,900
not everything is about design but design is about everything.

1271
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:59,200
um, what was your second question can systemic so

1272
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,300
is systemic design and to the gentleman's question earlier about

1273
01:03:02,300 --> 01:03:04,800
critiquing you know this

1274
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,300
You have to start somewhere type.

1275
01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:10,200
Of thing. Yes systemic design about

1276
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,500
bringing together different ideologies so that

1277
01:03:14,500 --> 01:03:16,400
you may propose something and thereby.

1278
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,200
Probably be a political in the in the

1279
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:21,300
politics sense of the world.

1280
01:03:22,900 --> 01:03:25,200
Prioritization making choices and so on

1281
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:25,700
and so forth.

1282
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:30,000
since

1283
01:03:30,900 --> 01:03:31,700
a political design

1284
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:36,300
I have to be honest, I don't understand what a systemic designer is.

1285
01:03:36,300 --> 01:03:39,400
I think it would kind of follow into whatever practice I

1286
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,600
have as a designer. I mean most people would Place me as a graphic designer. I'm

1287
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,300
the head of a graphic design Department. I get that by also kind

1288
01:03:45,300 --> 01:03:48,200
of, you know, I feel more of a generalist I've taught

1289
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:49,200
in different spaces.

1290
01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:53,800
I try to understand the different specializations

1291
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,300
and I think that the ideas that are promoted through

1292
01:03:56,300 --> 01:03:59,500
this Association are relevant for all disciplines. You

1293
01:03:59,500 --> 01:04:00,200
know, I wouldn't kind of

1294
01:04:00,900 --> 01:04:03,500
Call someone a systemic designer. I think every designer

1295
01:04:03,500 --> 01:04:06,200
needs to think of things as as a whole as

1296
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,500
a system about things trialing and

1297
01:04:09,500 --> 01:04:12,200
coming together to develop ideas.

1298
01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:16,500
And as I said, this could be half baked ideas that I'm testing

1299
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:19,500
out on an audience, but I think to think about the damage

1300
01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:22,200
of what your ideas could have, you know, because there's

1301
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:26,000
a lot of have big ideas that are now very very dangerous. And

1302
01:04:25,300 --> 01:04:28,700
so to think that what I do is not political

1303
01:04:29,700 --> 01:04:33,400
that's the problem. It has led to right and so

1304
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,200
this is kind of what I'm trying to call out

1305
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,200
here, you know, and that comes from

1306
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,300
a lot of it comes from education, you know, I think that

1307
01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:45,600
It to to what Tony

1308
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,700
was referred and what Tony has been saying for over 20 years anyways,

1309
01:04:48,700 --> 01:04:51,600
and what many of us have been saying about design educ?

1310
01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:55,400
Ation, I am in the middle of it. I can tell you that this is it's a constant

1311
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,100
battle even where we're talking about.

1312
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,100
Things are moving into more Progressive Realms. It's still a

1313
01:05:02,100 --> 01:05:02,300
battle.

1314
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,500
To have these discussions to actually think about know

1315
01:05:06,500 --> 01:05:09,200
what is a designer's education for them to

1316
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,100
go out and have the right tools. But also those tools are going

1317
01:05:12,100 --> 01:05:15,800
to develop, you know, I'm I've quoted myself but I often disagree

1318
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,500
with things I've written before, you know, you kind of like write something goes

1319
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,200
out and then you're like, I agree with myself, you know,

1320
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,800
I but that's kind of part of that process.

1321
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,400
So yeah, I'm not sure. I'm answering your question, but I'm

1322
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,800
trying to kind of make make links to what the

1323
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,600
other gentleman was saying.

1324
01:05:35,700 --> 01:05:36,400
Thanks, Jenna.

1325
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:41,200
I was gonna recommend your article against performative positivity

1326
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,200
as well for the question about.

1327
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,900
Yeah, I guess being negative

1328
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:48,500
as well. Just

1329
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,100
I yeah, I can send you the link if you want it. Let me know.

1330
01:05:52,700 --> 01:05:53,300
a good one

1331
01:05:54,700 --> 01:05:57,000
Sorry, tweet it. I'm not on Twitter. I hate Twitter.

1332
01:05:57,900 --> 01:05:58,900
I'm not going to say that.

1333
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:02,300
Okay.

1334
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:05,100
So we've got a couple of questions online.

1335
01:06:06,500 --> 01:06:07,100
Margaret he

1336
01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:12,800
pose in the neoliberalism idea

1337
01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:16,700
that we are to see ourselves as entrepreneurs of

1338
01:06:16,700 --> 01:06:19,700
ourselves some historians have suggested that

1339
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:22,600
this strange link of personal Liberty with the

1340
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,600
economics of neoliberalism is destroying our moral

1341
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,300
compass and Humanity the idea

1342
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:31,500
that we confuse this Choice personal Liberty

1343
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:32,000
and freedom.

1344
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,800
Have you got a response to that would you like me to read it again? Yeah, was that

1345
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,300
a question or because it sounded like you had read it like a statement.

1346
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:41,100
Sorry. There's a few question marks in there. Okay?

1347
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,400
Basically, could you respond to the

1348
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,400
idea of neoliberalism? Is it something you've grappled with?

1349
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:52,900
I mean

1350
01:06:55,100 --> 01:06:58,500
Is it something I refer to

1351
01:06:58,500 --> 01:07:01,100
I think yes, basically what we're living in.

1352
01:07:01,100 --> 01:07:05,000
Yeah, this is part that you know that the privatization

1353
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,900
of public spaces is what

1354
01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:09,500
I've talked about which is very much a kind of

1355
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:15,600
big part of neoliberalism talking about that sort of entrepreneurial

1356
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,700
individual who is quite resilient who

1357
01:07:19,700 --> 01:07:20,400
you know.

1358
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:22,400
it's funny because when you think about

1359
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,200
when you think about technological fixes and how everyone's like

1360
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,700
all these things are so great. Right, but actually now you're doing so much

1361
01:07:30,700 --> 01:07:33,500
more laborer than previously you are now your own travel

1362
01:07:33,500 --> 01:07:35,200
agent. You are now like everything.

1363
01:07:36,100 --> 01:07:37,800
Every paid for this is part of that.

1364
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,400
In society and designers have enabled it through designing these

1365
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:46,100
interfaces faces designing these experiences and so on. So yeah,

1366
01:07:45,100 --> 01:07:50,000
absolutely. I'm not sure I can

1367
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,800
really address that whole thing.

1368
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,400
But I do believe that a lot of what I have talked about

1369
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,500
here and this sort of push.

1370
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,500
because I do believe that a lot of these a lot

1371
01:08:00,500 --> 01:08:04,200
of the language that these brands use and

1372
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,100
You know the fact that we are relying on all these

1373
01:08:08,100 --> 01:08:11,500
Brands to make these changes that a whole generation believes.

1374
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,100
That the change can come strictly from these brands.

1375
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,600
Is that idea that this is an individual perspective

1376
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,800
rather than a collective one?

1377
01:08:22,300 --> 01:08:22,600
Thank you.

1378
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:24,900
Okay.

1379
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:32,400
So we have a question now from Neha from

1380
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,700
the national in from Gotham National

1381
01:08:35,700 --> 01:08:37,100
Institute design in India.

1382
01:08:38,900 --> 01:08:42,400
Okay, that convenience has to be unsustainable. Could

1383
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,700
it be that in the future perhaps with

1384
01:08:44,700 --> 01:08:48,300
a different distribution or economic system. We

1385
01:08:47,300 --> 01:08:50,600
could have both sustainability and

1386
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:51,500
convenience.

1387
01:08:55,700 --> 01:08:56,400
conven

1388
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:01,800
ient more convenient how

1389
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:03,700
Is my question back?

1390
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,600
Mock it. So again Michael my question

1391
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,000
is how can how?

1392
01:09:10,500 --> 01:09:12,800
how convenient like what is the kind of because

1393
01:09:14,100 --> 01:09:17,500
yes convenience is great. Right. Hey, we all delve into

1394
01:09:17,500 --> 01:09:20,100
convenience. There's no shame in that but

1395
01:09:21,100 --> 01:09:25,400
It depends what kind of convenience you can have a more I

1396
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:28,000
won't say sustainable lifestyle because sustaining

1397
01:09:27,700 --> 01:09:30,300
what sustaining the convenience what we have now to

1398
01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:33,400
have all the the great luxuries that I have and that's

1399
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:35,500
what the talk is trying to lean into.

1400
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,400
and that probably goes to relates to Tony's talk

1401
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:45,900
and Tony's discussion of the unsustainable of how we de-future so

1402
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,000
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure. It's

1403
01:09:51,300 --> 01:09:54,500
Is the person asking the questions saying that if

1404
01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:56,100
we have sustainable products?

1405
01:09:57,500 --> 01:09:59,300
It's going to make things more convenient.

1406
01:10:01,100 --> 01:10:04,600
Sorry, I really struggle with the new ones of Zoom questions. Yeah.

1407
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:05,300
Yeah, I think that.

1408
01:10:06,700 --> 01:10:10,300
So I think I think that the suggesting that

1409
01:10:10,300 --> 01:10:14,100
actually there is an opportunity to to

1410
01:10:13,100 --> 01:10:17,200
have something that is sustainable and convenient,

1411
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,300
but I guess that goes back to that question of

1412
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:22,600
what is being sustained. What does sustainability mean

1413
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,600
because it is a very slippery term it can

1414
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,800
mean different things to different people. But so

1415
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,600
I I am interpreting maybe in

1416
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,300
correctly. Please respond on on the

1417
01:10:35,300 --> 01:10:39,700
questions if you'd like Niha, but it's

1418
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:41,300
hard without us in a context.

1419
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:43,000
to

1420
01:10:43,900 --> 01:10:46,200
be responsore of this question. I think that problematizing that

1421
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:47,400
oh

1422
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:49,500
me her has responded I think.

1423
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,900
We often in the audience as well. Okay. Oh, she has responded. Yeah, I'll

1424
01:10:53,900 --> 01:10:56,500
just go to a question here and then we'll come to

1425
01:10:56,500 --> 01:10:59,800
Jodie and then this person

1426
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:00,000
here.

1427
01:11:00,700 --> 01:11:03,700
Do we have to give up convenience for

1428
01:11:03,700 --> 01:11:06,200
sustainability or can the both coexist in

1429
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:06,500
the future?

1430
01:11:08,100 --> 01:11:11,200
Okay, that's much better phrase. Yeah, you're gonna have to

1431
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,400
give up some convenience.

1432
01:11:12,700 --> 01:11:13,100
because

1433
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:15,600
I mean when you think about

1434
01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:18,800
the services that have come to

1435
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,700
That are extremely convenient at who's expense. Right?

1436
01:11:21,700 --> 01:11:24,400
It's that hidden labor and we've seen a

1437
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,500
lot of that during covid. So yes, some things

1438
01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:29,700
got to give in order to have

1439
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:32,500
a much kind of

1440
01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:38,100
I mean sustainability is not going to save the

1441
01:11:38,100 --> 01:11:40,200
world from ecological collapse. That's basically

1442
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:41,900
the just of what I've been trying to

1443
01:11:42,500 --> 01:11:45,500
so and convenience has come to

1444
01:11:46,500 --> 01:11:49,400
to kind of take over our lives. There's a lot of things that we just

1445
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,300
do for the sake of convenience. And in order

1446
01:11:52,300 --> 01:11:55,200
to save the planet from Oblivion, you're going

1447
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,600
to have to give things up. That's kind of

1448
01:11:58,000 --> 01:11:58,600
summary

1449
01:12:00,300 --> 01:12:01,200
Of put it bluntly.

1450
01:12:02,700 --> 01:12:05,200
Okay, great. So thank you

1451
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,200
so much for the criticality in your work. And in this talk,

1452
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:12,000
I've often thought that I

1453
01:12:11,300 --> 01:12:14,600
mean and in just the discipline

1454
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,200
of graphic design and I've often thought that graphic design

1455
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,200
was the most backwards of

1456
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:21,800
all the design disciplines.

1457
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,300
Involves in reproducing the logic of

1458
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:34,500
capitalist relations and camouflage and that

1459
01:12:34,500 --> 01:12:37,200
is it's inherent function in the whole

1460
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,500
and also it's less evident the way in

1461
01:12:40,500 --> 01:12:44,600
which graphic design is linked

1462
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,400
into the sustainability crisis. It's not as

1463
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,400
easily quantifiable as architecture or

1464
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,500
product design for example, and so it's really behind the other

1465
01:12:53,500 --> 01:12:56,800
design disciplines, but it does seem as if it is a it's

1466
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,400
just becoming more evident what a

1467
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,600
sight of struggle it is within graphic design. I

1468
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:02,600
mean

1469
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:04,800
To me it seems that way at least.

1470
01:13:05,300 --> 01:13:08,600
and like you said in in design education and

1471
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,100
one of the things she said is like the danger of selling out

1472
01:13:11,100 --> 01:13:15,000
completely some simplification or

1473
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:18,200
Videos, it was one

1474
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:21,200
of your points and just before we get to my question. I just

1475
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,500
want to say that that might be a tie into this community because I

1476
01:13:24,500 --> 01:13:26,400
think that we talk about like

1477
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:30,400
not oversimplifying and and doing the

1478
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,300
the looking into the complexity of

1479
01:13:33,300 --> 01:13:34,500
it with with various.

1480
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,500
Systemic methods. Anyway my question

1481
01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:40,000
is is I mean

1482
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,200
and I don't know if you're going to be able to answer this like on some

1483
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:48,200
several other questions like and if you can't find because bringing the criticality

1484
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:50,400
to the spaces like more than enough, but

1485
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:51,500
you know.

1486
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,000
There's so much to do what I'd like to ask is to say how do you

1487
01:13:55,300 --> 01:13:56,000
think that this?

1488
01:13:56,700 --> 01:13:57,500
this

1489
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,800
you know communication design can can contribute to

1490
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,400
the design for Planet agenda. For

1491
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,100
example, or like the obviously from

1492
01:14:07,100 --> 01:14:11,900
a decal and I think perspective that we've

1493
01:14:11,900 --> 01:14:14,200
been trying to develop in this community too and

1494
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:18,000
like and and for me, it seems like it's it's got

1495
01:14:17,100 --> 01:14:21,400
to be not just sort of I mean, I understand you've

1496
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:24,100
mentioned a few like the

1497
01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:26,500
micro gestures and

1498
01:14:26,500 --> 01:14:29,400
a few other strategies, but it seems that

1499
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,200
we need like structural some kind

1500
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:33,700
of like

1501
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:37,800
Things like institutional capacities somehow in

1502
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,700
the in the communications sphere because

1503
01:14:40,700 --> 01:14:43,100
there's just like there's just so much

1504
01:14:43,100 --> 01:14:46,900
potential for green wash and that's why people think

1505
01:14:46,900 --> 01:14:50,800
it sounds so negative to be critical because like

1506
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,400
the greenwash is so persuade pervasive.

1507
01:14:55,500 --> 01:14:55,900
So, I don't know.

1508
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:59,300
if you have any ideas about building more institutional power than

1509
01:14:59,300 --> 01:15:02,800
you already have obviously at ual, but

1510
01:15:03,700 --> 01:15:06,100
you know beyond that maybe in our community.

1511
01:15:07,100 --> 01:15:07,600
Yeah, I mean.

1512
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:11,200
Asking me I I found product and it does for design one

1513
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:12,600
of the most difficult spaces.

1514
01:15:13,700 --> 01:15:16,100
To talk about this stuff. Whereas the thing

1515
01:15:16,100 --> 01:15:19,400
is that graphic design feels more backwards because of the way

1516
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:20,800
it's kind of not quantifiable.

1517
01:15:21,500 --> 01:15:23,500
But I felt it was really.

1518
01:15:24,100 --> 01:15:26,600
really much more difficult to get to

1519
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:30,300
product industrial design students to see the effects of what

1520
01:15:30,300 --> 01:15:31,300
they're doing. I mean, I'm

1521
01:15:32,100 --> 01:15:34,800
I don't know what I guess because of that title engineering but

1522
01:15:36,100 --> 01:15:39,200
Yeah, institutional hoof God. This one has been a difficult

1523
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:42,200
one because I mean obviously I met a

1524
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:45,000
quite a progressive institution if you want to say I guess that has

1525
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,700
Policies they have an anti-racism action plan. We have

1526
01:15:49,700 --> 01:15:52,600
the climate social justice principles that's

1527
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,400
now being embedded in curricula. But of course with these

1528
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:58,700
things the danger of these things and what has happened is

1529
01:15:58,700 --> 01:16:01,500
that they've become these tick box toolkits because

1530
01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:04,600
they're quite easy and digestible right? You can talk

1531
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,400
about Injustice in an easy way. You can just change your

1532
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:08,300
reading list and

1533
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,200
that's it at decolonized everything, but that's basically what

1534
01:16:12,100 --> 01:16:16,400
myself in the group have been writing against for how long

1535
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,300
has it been now five five years or so.

1536
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:20,400
and

1537
01:16:21,300 --> 01:16:24,200
to constantly have these critical conversations to have people

1538
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,300
to really rethink their assumptions question their assumptions.

1539
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:29,800
at this point it's

1540
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,500
you know, you you have to to issues. The first is

1541
01:16:33,500 --> 01:16:35,500
some people feel like it's something being imposed on them.

1542
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:39,200
And so they're going to become very reluctant.

1543
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:41,500
And I deal with that all the time.

1544
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:45,700
And I still deal with it and I try to make even in my like I

1545
01:16:45,700 --> 01:16:47,800
don't actually have as much power as most people think.

1546
01:16:48,900 --> 01:16:50,800
I'm kind of squished from the top and squished from the

1547
01:16:51,900 --> 01:16:51,900
bottom

1548
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:56,200
and and the system makes it that you don't have

1549
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:57,900
enough time to think about these things.

1550
01:16:58,300 --> 01:16:58,600
so

1551
01:17:00,100 --> 01:17:01,600
the city anyone that's been in that role understand.

1552
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:05,400
S how the system is made to sort of force you

1553
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,600
to fail and deal with paperwork. The process itself has

1554
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:10,100
become all about paperwork.

1555
01:17:10,700 --> 01:17:13,100
Right, you know you can have kind of

1556
01:17:13,100 --> 01:17:16,100
someone come in be like is the climate embedded in

1557
01:17:16,100 --> 01:17:19,200
your learning outcomes? No, okay, 10 points off and

1558
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:21,400
that's kind of what it's becoming and that's a danger.

1559
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,700
Is that a win at times?

1560
01:17:24,900 --> 01:17:27,300
You could say yes, we take it. What do I

1561
01:17:27,300 --> 01:17:30,100
take it with this bureaucratic process? How do I change it

1562
01:17:30,100 --> 01:17:31,400
in the classroom in my way?

1563
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:37,000
I guess I mean

1564
01:17:39,100 --> 01:17:41,100
I I don't know. There's something there's so many different.

1565
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,400
conversations going on obviously you

1566
01:17:47,300 --> 01:17:50,200
Depending on the position that you hold you have certain.

1567
01:17:52,500 --> 01:17:55,300
Power to sort of disrupt a conversational or make people think

1568
01:17:55,300 --> 01:17:57,700
differently about something to influence something else.

1569
01:17:58,700 --> 01:18:01,700
I'm trying to work through the minor gestures

1570
01:18:01,700 --> 01:18:04,200
because I sort of look at reading the

1571
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:07,300
audience. Okay, what will work in this context?

1572
01:18:07,300 --> 01:18:11,100
What won't I think with communication design there is an incredible

1573
01:18:10,100 --> 01:18:12,100
amount of potential.

1574
01:18:14,300 --> 01:18:18,600
because it is also now very

1575
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,400
much in that ux UI space, which actually

1576
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,600
we're not really capitalizing on and

1577
01:18:24,900 --> 01:18:27,500
That's an area and also because I think

1578
01:18:27,500 --> 01:18:29,300
the other thing that is quite interesting.

1579
01:18:30,100 --> 01:18:33,200
I don't know about other design programs because it's also

1580
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,100
context specific is the types of students interested in

1581
01:18:36,100 --> 01:18:36,900
communication design.

1582
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,100
And so you're kind of really widening.

1583
01:18:39,700 --> 01:18:42,900
The scope who's coming in and what those experiences

1584
01:18:42,900 --> 01:18:45,600
and narratives they're bringing into the classroom. That's

1585
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,400
really changing things around.

1586
01:18:50,300 --> 01:18:53,800
But yeah, I mean this is this is such a long discussion. This

1587
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,700
is something I think about all the time and try and

1588
01:18:56,700 --> 01:18:59,400
do in my work whether in the classroom whether in small

1589
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:01,800
incremental changes within the curriculum.

1590
01:19:02,700 --> 01:19:06,800
In conversation with the staff, you

1591
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:06,900
know.

1592
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:10,300
Through writing more accessible work

1593
01:19:10,300 --> 01:19:13,300
that is not necessarily kind of behind this paywall in

1594
01:19:13,300 --> 01:19:13,600
journals.

1595
01:19:17,100 --> 01:19:20,500
I think I think it's an interesting space because also at the same time the

1596
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:23,500
what I really really I think

1597
01:19:23,500 --> 01:19:26,500
of people forget about communication design is that you're the

1598
01:19:26,500 --> 01:19:29,100
closest to your craft because you're sort of

1599
01:19:29,100 --> 01:19:32,200
still very much as a designer in chart almost

1600
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,800
in charge of that final outcome, but at the same time communication designers

1601
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,000
are often always brought in at the end.

1602
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:41,100
Whereas you see other types of designers are brought in at the

1603
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:44,000
beginning of the process. So maybe that's kind of where we start in terms

1604
01:19:44,300 --> 01:19:46,300
of. What is the role of a communication designer.

1605
01:19:46,900 --> 01:19:48,900
Always at the end and how do we bring that?

1606
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,600
Great. Thanks. Anna those great question gramsa

1607
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,900
and response and I'm afraid

1608
01:20:00,900 --> 01:20:03,300
I only got time for one more question, which is

1609
01:20:03,300 --> 01:20:03,400
here.

1610
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:07,500
Hello.

1611
01:20:08,300 --> 01:20:11,600
Thanks to the great talk. This is kind of an Ethics question.

1612
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,400
I really liked your presentation and

1613
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:18,200
it resonates a lot with my own like practice.

1614
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:22,100
I used to be in Academia. Now. I work in Industry as

1615
01:20:22,100 --> 01:20:23,200
a research designer.

1616
01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:27,200
And one of the things that I do

1617
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:30,700
is I interview customers I ask

1618
01:20:30,700 --> 01:20:33,300
them, you know what they want and what they need I take

1619
01:20:33,300 --> 01:20:36,500
those things and I advise the design team on what

1620
01:20:36,500 --> 01:20:40,200
you know, how what changes the customers want

1621
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:42,900
and often customers really want convenience

1622
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:45,400
and they really want things to be fast and

1623
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:48,100
cheap and you know

1624
01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:51,300
all the things that we have been talking about that maybe aren't the best of

1625
01:20:51,300 --> 01:20:54,700
the most sustainable. So how do you advise that?

1626
01:20:54,700 --> 01:20:57,300
Like I do my job, you know what I mean? Like, I feel

1627
01:20:57,300 --> 01:21:00,400
like it's kind of ethical quandary where you know, I'm hearing

1628
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,400
things that maybe I see the negative impacts of

1629
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,400
but if that's what the person wants

1630
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:08,700
who am I to step in and say you're wrong

1631
01:21:09,900 --> 01:21:12,300
Yeah, no, absolutely who doesn't love convenience?

1632
01:21:15,300 --> 01:21:15,800
the powerful

1633
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,200
Force it's like the more convenient you make something like for example

1634
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,400
when you used to order, but I still sometimes call the

1635
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,200
restaurant because I know that that Uber Eats or whatever

1636
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,500
it takes about 35% is that right? And a

1637
01:21:28,500 --> 01:21:31,200
lot of them have their own drivers and usually kind of

1638
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:32,600
build this relationship if you can

1639
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:36,200
if you're I mean, I'm not old but like if you kind of

1640
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:39,600
see in the films where it's like yeah order number four and

1641
01:21:40,300 --> 01:21:43,200
You know that was that was the extent of the convenience now, it's like I

1642
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:43,500
don't even need.

1643
01:21:44,300 --> 01:21:47,500
That game and that's what people like they don't want to talk to people anymore because you've

1644
01:21:47,500 --> 01:21:48,500
conditioned them into that.

1645
01:21:49,700 --> 01:21:52,300
So this is the interesting part about the work of

1646
01:21:52,300 --> 01:21:54,300
design. Is that need and desire?

1647
01:21:55,100 --> 01:21:58,400
Right. So those desires have been made into needs needs. I

1648
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:02,300
don't want to engage with anybody. You've manufactured this

1649
01:22:01,300 --> 01:22:02,800
these.

1650
01:22:03,500 --> 01:22:06,300
Ideas of convenience and made them so prevalent in

1651
01:22:06,300 --> 01:22:07,100
people's lives.

1652
01:22:07,900 --> 01:22:10,300
Take them as like oh, yeah, how

1653
01:22:10,300 --> 01:22:13,200
could it be any other way, you know, and so maybe your

1654
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:15,400
strategy is a much more difficult one.

1655
01:22:16,300 --> 01:22:19,100
It's thinking about okay if this is what people are saying.

1656
01:22:21,500 --> 01:22:24,200
What strategies or who do I work with?

1657
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:27,500
Who do I come together with in order to think about different ways

1658
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:30,000
to make them consider the problematics of

1659
01:22:30,300 --> 01:22:33,200
this or to to address things or to work

1660
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:33,300
things?

1661
01:22:34,500 --> 01:22:37,500
To work through things differently because I think what we're again, it's

1662
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:40,400
like the whole what's in it for me situation, and we need to really get

1663
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:41,600
away from that, right?

1664
01:22:42,300 --> 01:22:42,500
the

1665
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:45,900
by this light is Just Killer.

1666
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:46,900
and it's

1667
01:22:48,500 --> 01:22:51,200
Yeah, the what's in it for me situation is

1668
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:54,300
the issue and that's kind of what you're describing. So how do we

1669
01:22:54,300 --> 01:22:55,700
I do not have the answer for this, you know?

1670
01:22:55,900 --> 01:22:58,300
I don't think we'll have the answer for this for a long

1671
01:22:58,300 --> 01:22:58,400
time.

1672
01:22:59,500 --> 01:23:02,400
But how do you get away from that being?

1673
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:04,400
people's go to

1674
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,200
because of where the Earth is heading to I just don't think

1675
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:10,100
that people really realize the extent.

1676
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:10,900
which

1677
01:23:12,700 --> 01:23:15,400
things are going and the extent to which our

1678
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:17,700
sustainability has destroyed the world.

1679
01:23:18,500 --> 01:23:19,600
so it's probably

1680
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,200
as important as for designers to understand that.

1681
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:26,900
With these questions, there's no immediacy.

1682
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,600
It's a long-term process. How do you begin to enable

1683
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,100
people to unlearn the practices of anticipating a

1684
01:23:33,100 --> 01:23:36,100
device of anticipating the next

1685
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:37,600
more convenient thing?

1686
01:23:38,700 --> 01:23:41,400
I mean, you know, most of us know that self-service checkouts

1687
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,200
are a nightmare, but we still use them because we're like, well,

1688
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:47,200
this is the way of the world right and you even have the clerk because

1689
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,100
they're coming to lose my job go to the self-service checkout, but I still need that.

1690
01:23:50,500 --> 01:23:53,000
Person why because it's unexpected bagging item.

1691
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:55,600
So

1692
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,200
You know, there's but we sort of think. Oh, yeah,

1693
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:02,700
that's more convenient. But actually a lot of times it's not so it's kind

1694
01:24:02,700 --> 01:24:05,000
of this unlearning but also this sort of

1695
01:24:05,700 --> 01:24:06,300
process of

1696
01:24:07,700 --> 01:24:11,800
For you, it's like a lifelong probably process.

1697
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,100
I'm just saying that it's not going to

1698
01:24:13,100 --> 01:24:13,300
happen.

1699
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:17,300
It's not something immediate. It's something that you should

1700
01:24:17,300 --> 01:24:18,200
continue to think about.

1701
01:24:19,300 --> 01:24:20,000
I need to work on.

1702
01:24:21,900 --> 01:24:23,400
and maybe also think about

1703
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,400
What types of questions you are asking people as well?

1704
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:31,000
In order to get different types of answers not by Leading.

1705
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:32,600
Yeah.

1706
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,200
Thanks, Donna. And yeah, that was the last

1707
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:38,200
question. Thank you so much.

1708
01:24:47,700 --> 01:24:48,100
All right.

1709
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,800
I know you're super busy person. So I'm so

1710
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:54,100
so pleased that you've been able to come down to Brighton and I hope

1711
01:24:54,100 --> 01:24:54,600
you come again.

1712
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:58,100
Yeah, but I've got a gift for you

1713
01:24:58,100 --> 01:24:58,900
and

1714
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,800
it's a print by Anthony burrill

1715
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:05,400
and printed by my mate, Gary.

1716
01:25:06,100 --> 01:25:09,500
Around the corner from our Studios and architecture and

1717
01:25:09,500 --> 01:25:12,200
Design Studios and all of

1718
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,600
them go towards your child, and it's a piece poster. Thank

1719
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:16,000
you so much.