Hi morning, everyone and thanks for joining us
this morning. I'm really excited to
announce our key note. So I'll get on with it. So Dana Abdullah.
Is a designer researcher and educator who's
research encompasses decolonizing design
possibilities of design education design cultures,
the politics of design publishing a
new narratives and practices in design that push the
disciplinary boundaries and definitions of the discipline.
She is a founding member of the decolonizing design platform
and founded kalamat magazine an
independent nonprofit magazine about Arab thought
and culture.
Our first book designally ways of knowing a working
inventory of things a designer should know was published
by onomatopi in 2022.
Dana obtained her PhD in in
Jordan. I'm sorry in in the
department of design at Goldsmith University, London.
In her current role as program director of graphic
design at camberwell Chelsea and Wimbledon colleges
of Art.
Ual, Donna is responsible for BA in
graphic design ba in graphic design communication. Ma
in graphic design communication. I may
in global collaborative design practice and The Graduate
diploma in graphic design and Dana
is also hilarious.
And such a joy to be around. I've only met
a couple of times and it's a real privilege to be able to spend some
time with her here and
I personally find her writing and work
really inspirational. And the thing that I like most is
the fact that she gets things done. She does stuff.
So thank you Donna for
everything you do and over to you.
Thank you Sally for that wonderful introduction.
Hear me, okay.
I have to wear these things now to read so.
Okay.
So thanks very much for being here on
a Saturday morning, which I know if
you stayed out late last night, which I did not.
Could be quite difficult.
So, thanks again for the invitation Sally. I
really appreciate you you're kind of
belief in my work and inviting me to be here and thank
you very much to the organizers. So
In this talk, I use entries from my book
designedly ways of knowing a working inventory of
things a designer should know to explore what I
call the contradictions of sustainability.
The way Brands greenwashed their practices to Signal
their good and ethical practices and how
they continue to create products and services branded as
sustainable that we just do not need but never
challenging the systems that created the problems to
begin with.
leaning
in and produced knowledge differently.
Why have I chosen the term amateur over
generalist?
I quote Sayeed who draws on the literal meaning of
the word in French?
the love of something
the somethings he loved. He was very involved in without being
a professional.
Throughout his life and career side fought against the trappings
of specialization and raised questions about
issues that spent multiple disciplines.
areas, Beyond his specialization of literature
I believe that the designer cannot be anything but an amateur
because design no matter how you define. It
is about everything.
In this talk, I am working through ideas with you
dear audience to iterate them.
I request your patience through this process of what may not
be fully formed ideas.
Sorry.
Yes.
In drafting what I wanted to write about. I was blocked my
interests and observations spend so
many areas and I constantly observed systems at play
particularly health and supermarkets the latter
of which we spent a lot of time in over the past two
years.
I will return to the supermarket towards the end.
Ask myself questions such as why are only the damaging
measures of surveillance put in place during covid have remained.
Societies individualism help spread the virus more than
it could have how could the Elizabeth line cost over
14 billion pounds and there's no signage at Heathrow.
Why do footballers make so much money? How can
a country so rich have so many food banks?
Why are public toilets still disgusting despite enhanced cleaning
measures and people still don't wash their hands?
Why do people keep windows closed on public transit during
covid?
Things such as SodaStream machines or laundry tablets or
coffee tablets or banana peelers or fitbits.
And finally, why do we continue to believe
that everything that exists can be made sustainable?
this
Society consumers States segment
and just as the rest of the world as seen and
lived by consumers culture turns into a warehouse of
meant for consumption products each vying
for the shifting drifting attention of prospective
consumers in the hope to attract it
and hold it for a bit longer than a fleeting moment.
Our consumer Society is fueled by the type of
person successive governments in the global North have worked
to promote.
The resilient individualistic and productive person who
is at the service of the economy.
You can see this in how we talk about mental health healing is a
personal Journey practice self-
care in thinking about the consumer Society. I was
reminded of Catherine youssef's quote.
Solutions and proposals are all about the
continuance of the current status of inequality powered by
other means
And this my Broadview got even broader and at times
narrower, but then it broadened and so I
decided to focus on Brands since I've been documented what
documenting what I deemed contradictions since 2019.
However in the last year
There was an obvious abundance of green plant-based clean
natural and the now token
diversity language and adverts.
To quote Marshall mcluhan when a thing is current it creates
currency and sustainability in social justice are
doggy go.
Generations said maybe
tilted as the social justice and climate change Advocate
generation
It is all through Brands which have cannibalized every aspect of
Our Lives.
We live in a world of privatization which has
slithered into every aspect of life. All experiences
are branded and all spaces are those
of consumption increasingly sustainable consumption.
Company by an army of henchmen the private security
guard
Brands impersonate political struggles like the performative
solidarity. We are witnessing by French female artists
cutting their hair in solidarity with the Iranian protests
that were sparked after the death of Masa amini
the 22 year old woman who was detained by
Iran's morality police for wearing the hijab to loosely.
I started thinking about how much of a role
design plays in this development.
Now while design is not recognized as a critical area
of study the lack of
seriousness, it is given undermines the power it has to
form.
future aided the blurring of need and desire by manufacturing
desire
designers are the creators and keepers of neoliberal Dreams.
And when I refer to designers, I am also referring to
the industry, but but also calling on those
designers who can use their Collective power to begin to
change the industry.
Designers as my colleague Nikki Wallace argues are
also agents who are capable of taking action
that contravenes the recursive practices that are
visible in industry.
Norms so I start the journey at a hotel
To help us save the environment. Please reuse your towel. The
sign urges the guests.
The same bathroom where the sign hangs you will find a small
bottle of body wash another one for shampoo and
conditioner a bar of soap rolled in paper with a
sticker on top a plastic cup wrapped in plastic or
paper and Nescafe sashes.
associate sorry
the situation is what I call the contradictions
of sustainability.
Contradictions of sustainability are all around us.
From the airport regulations that require you to fit all toiletries into
100 milliliter bottles in a plastic bag and
having to dump any drink even if under a
hundred milliliters.
through
secure force you to buy another one wrapped in plastic.
To the culture The Cutlery wrapped in plastic or
the paper cups and bottles and the packaged food
on the airline to the reusable plastic bag initiatives.
They are referred to as contradictions because the very companies
who preach about their sustainable practices are the
ones driving the
problem. Why are we?
So not answer this question today. I will attempt to
die further into the issue and explore the reason behind why
we find these initiatives.
something called
unique
so tucked away at the bottom of their web page visitors will
find a link to something called sustainability.
And in the store there is a transparent donation box visually
demonstrating their mission to unlocking the
power of clothing.
Unique closed three pillars are people planet
and community.
So Uniqlo is a fast fashion brand not attempting
to reduce the amount of clothing. They produce they
remain like the entire fashion industry married to
Seasons, but to donate unwanted Goods
to disaster victims and socially vulnerable groups
working with the charity goods for good amongst other
recycling initiatives.
The continent of Africa being the world's recycling bin with
a substantially higher number of goods donated there
than anywhere else in the world.
This is good intention sustainability.
Unique closed sustainability Mission claims the
company wants to turn the power of clothing into
a Force for good by making and selling
good clothing that is made to last.
It's comfortable and pleasurable without excessive burden
on the environment and under good read non-swed
shop environments.
Now I am not opposed to a company making these claims, but
they can use their power to reduce the amount of
Collections and garments produced.
challenging the seasonal notion and offering staple
Comfortable necessary items that to
me is working towards a more just
and sustainable Society.
Unfortunately, like many Brands Uniqlo
seduces audience of its good nature of
his good-natured business through infographics that simplified
complicated processes.
So many sustainability initiatives are no
more than buyback.
Edition buyback programs signal the danger
of short-term decision-making and the dangers of seeking out
simplic.
times buying back requires people to
jump through multiple Hoops to acquire it.
Whether by requiring multiple pieces of personal information
to ensure one, in fact did purchase the product
from them or by claiming to have a system in
place, which suddenly is being reviewed or by putting a
time limit on store credit or minimum spend.
The final offer is always worth less than the labor.
Involved so these initiatives only increase consumption.
Cycle close through them feel good by
doing.
And get money off your next t-shirt.
How can we begin to think differently if every company that
has the ability to enact change comes up with
short-term?
and silly Solutions
available brands make claim green credentials, but
like others before them. They use the same
techniques to keep you consuming.
Take 10 pounds off your next order free delivery or
20% off your next purchase. Just stay
with us.
Buyback programs only divert the
problem elsewhere far away from our eyes to secondhand
markets and landfills in countries like Ghana and Chile
and little is known on pre and post-production waste.
In the last two decades the second hand clothing Market valued at
36 billion dollars and the second hand
electronic Market has exploded.
But they're so-called revolutions ignore how this
benefits those who handles the waste generated.
System itself does not make recycling Goods easier.
Recycling old electronics is not a simple
process and although companies state that you can recycle old
Goods you have to purch.
ASE irrecycle
We dispose turn around and feel good
about ourselves as illustrated by the image on the screen
which signals that by putting it beside the bin. It
is now someone else's responsibility to take care of this.
There are supposed strategies being put in place to manage
end of life.
number 23 when not to design
Stakeholder and investor pressure on carbon emissions
are easier than discussing labor conditions.
So instead of focusing on the second hand market for close
electronics cars products and
so on there should be an emphasis on making less things that
actually last and changing people's mindsets around
ownership of tools that are used in frequently and
are better shared.
Continuing to take planned obsolescence in mind is the reason we have
a huge second-hand Market.
a fashion brands is propped up by a whole industry of sustainable
shopping initiatives and organizations that measure
Some of these are genuinely calling out the problems, but others
are increased forms of greenwashing. I draw
on two examples.
The first is good on you.
a website that urges you to wear the change you want to see
state that it is a group of campaigners fashion professionals
scientists writers and developers who
have come together to have a real impact using the
one powerful weapon. We all have in common.
ability to choose
good on you seeks to choose and reward responsible fashion
brands that do good for a
more sustainable and
Fair they use expert analysis to conduct their work and contribute
to the UN sustainable development goals
Similarly to most initiatives it is a political.
Framing it in an apolitical way makes us accept everything
as a given.
As easily sold and packaged.
in their analysis of Nike
the company as it may not be a big change, but
and here lies the problem.
We continue to encourage good intentions and now
everything is a small change and yet none are
making big changes moreover. It skims through
the open documentation of Nike's use of sweatshops using
forced labor, but hey,
the second example is Shady Club an image-based Chrome
browser plugin that identifies which products
are sustainable as
You shop it uses visual icons to identify the rating typically using
the green Amber red to do so, which if you've
ever heard me speak reminds me of being on
the terrorist because yes, I'm an Arab and that's what it
resonates with me.
And directs you to a more sustainable brand.
Seek out information on how they have developed and collated
this data. You will find a coming soon under their
frequently asked questions.
So this is the extent of our imagin.
ation form of awareness campaign that seeming seemingly
thinks it will disrupt a whole
indust
ry of our imagination are found in the products and services pushed
through by Instagram and
Facebook to entice you to
buy many of these take Basics. So for example cotton buds
cotton cotton swabs laundry detergent
lunch bedding and add some sustainable
features and copy about how the old way is not working
and
But the new way is the old way with a
slight twist.
The differences are almost always superficial suffering
from futureitis. There is
no look no real look into the
system that cause this product to be unsustainable to
begin with and like most design Solutions. It's
a quick fix.
And thanks to the internet and social media platforms products that
are still in beta are being pushed.
It is the same manufacturing processes and the same problems with
the promise of a longer lasting product.
The consumer capitalist system generates problems of
waste excess obesity Etc and they counter this
with commodified Solutions.
So think of the low fat calorie options like McDonald's offering
salads.
It is the same when replacing plastic with compostable
and biode.
Grade, this only fuels the problem. It gives people the illusion
they can consume even more because it is not harmful
to the environment.
but also has the inventor of the paper LED and the paper straw
really considered how ineffective a material it is for this function that
It is I know that you're thinking it too.
Moreover recycling systems are not necessarily in place
to support these new materials and let us not address how
confusing most if not all people find the recycling
system.
Recycling for most people still appears to be the only way
the Earth will be saved recycling is a powerful
brand with a strong story because it relies on how
little people know about material sourcing production volumes
input substitution and property acquisition and
not to mention understanding the recycling symbols.
The more you recycle the
more Kickstarter Instagram Facebook and the market
overall contains an increasing number of Commodities and
lifestyles on offer, but they oft.
En we then throw them out and other replace others replace them.
quicker than
ever acquire the lifestyles you want pursue pleasure instant gratification
and self-realization through easy credit and contactless
payments.
The acquisition of debt submits us to the economic
status quo.
Our transactions are surveyed to push more content through platforms
to buy more.
less friction more consumption as the ux/ui Mantra
goes and this will only increase
2022 Instagram Trend report states that
one in four teenagers and young people
27%
shop directly via social media
A statistics they will a statistically will surely.
Even Google has worked out a way to make your shopping experience easier.
scanning of
Yours but a saturated Market leads to anxiety.
Designers work on developing new ways of interacting
with the abundance of choice that paralyzes consumers.
Think of the video story experience versus the decision-making anxiety
of the streaming service interface remains unsolved.
Worse yet is the normalization of the cost
of living crisis.
The guides produced by companies to help
you save money through investing in electricity saving
gadgets and advice from governments and
business on how to stay warm this winter.
Is any form of suffering can be exploited for gain
and the power for the of the disimagination machine the
cultural apparatuses undermining our ability to
think critically imagine the unimagin.
Come critically.
of the world
think for a minute
all the products designers have developed King at
the time. This is a need.
This will make money. This is genius.
returning to my introduction products like SodaStream medicine
Fitbits. I know this is quite controversial to
talk about.
the portable fans
banana peelers everything in the shop Flying Tiger which
continues to manufacture nonsensical objects and
charges you a bag and claims a
sustainable laundry tablets coffee pods, the
whole universe of accessories around around phones
and so on and so forth.
nor the
complete World in which we
we choose to look at the simplest way forward and fixate on
technology to fix our problems away.
Different materials will solve our planetary Extinction while
consumption levels remain the same.
Why?
I outlined the three reasons why in their imagining Futures
designers are becoming conservative or arbitrary as
stated by John Chris Jones.
one copying outward from
form of what came before?
refuge in personal sense of artistry and
three economics Chief materials
for Jones designers are aggregating responsibility
hence creating further problems.
Is where designers need to think about?
when not
of course someone can always claim this product
is useful.
If you take soda stream.
coffee pods away
something artificial it is not the same as making a
species.
Now taking away. All Plastics will actually have
consequences because as scholar Max Lebron
cautions not all Plastics.
Are I quote them at length?
For example, the term single-use Plastics includes medical
Plastics disposable packaging and other items.
Conflating them can cause harm particularly when
there are calls to ban all single-use Plastics.
without differentiating between medical Plastics while also
making them less toxic and other single-use Plastics or
differentiating between PVC which is
full of toxic chemicals and silicone less so
or differentiating between plastic use and
plastic production
It is impossible to be responsible to the
problems of ethics of PL.
Astic to one way to think about the relationships among differentiation
specificity ethics and
obligation in Plastics.
There's not even a
Wii I'm going to move briefly into another realm of
consumption large events
During the covid-19 pandemic large sporting events conferences and
festivals were postponed taking place a year
later with limited AUD.
Tickles like that like the Olympics and the
World Cup see Millions spent on opening and closing Ceremonies for
a few hours of entertainment.
surely need to look more closely at our obsession with
after all as outlined by Mark Perryman and his
book on the Olympics the Olympic torch relay was quote an
invention of the Nazis brought to you by Adolf Hitler
with Stage production by Joseph gobbels.
for the 1936 Berlin Olympics
To relay was originally intended to showcase the Rachel the
racial superiority of the Aryan Nation as the
flame traveled.
around instead our solution
is he can make these events?
More however, prior to the 1980s the Olympics
celebrated amateurism and were
not as corporate. I'm a tourism the
theme
let's talk this all changed after the 1984 Summer
Games in Los Angeles with both the
commercialization of the games and professionalization of
the athletes, which have been key to the dramatic transformation
of the Olympics into what they are today.
Interestingly the design of the identity of the 1984 Olympics
by the late Deborah assessment and Paul
praja reflected this by being absolutely everywhere.
Finally, we should remember that traveling fans were
not as common as they are now, which was made
easier by the deregulation of European air travel.
in the late 80s and led to the rise of cheap budget
Airlines
the Olympics and any large sporting event are
designed to serve the interests of the international Olympic
Committee.
maintaining and defending their very particular model
of the
Olympics and not the needs of the host City and Nation
Well now we Cline wrote no logo over
20 years ago. The world was asking if your sneakers
are no sweat your rugs rugmark your
soccer balls Child free your moisturizers cruelty
free your coffee fair trade now.
It is all about how clean or plant-based or
vegan or carbon neutral you are.
Find cautioned back in 1999. Some
of these initiatives have genuine Merit.
But the challenges of a global labor market are too vast
to be defined or Limited.
By changed other than the marketing copy and Brands signaling how
good they are.
The brands pushed by Instagram in our feeds only talk
about the impact of the materials used.
Calling something natural or plant-based strips away
complexity.
Simplifying the process into the dualist and binary Cartesian way
of viewing the world.
moreover as
We pressure companies to tackle their materials, but
we do not focus on the invisible labor behind the
objects. We consume.
How much pressure is on changing business operations and Supply
chains?
In no logo, which itself emphasized the
severity of a situation that seems on reflection much
simpler than what we are facing. Now Cline outlined
quote for the system to function smoothly
workers must know little of the marketed lives
of the products. They produce and consumers must
remain sheltered from the production lives of the brands. They
buy
other words
list economy is one of the good life and one of
way and waste must be disposed of without being seen.
Forced labor remains an even more growing problem in
many sectors including Services manufacturing construction
and agriculture manufacturing accounts for
one fifth over 3 million people globally of forced
labor exploitation of adults in the lower
tiers of domestic or Global Supply chains, whereas Services
accounts for one third over 5.5 million
people.
The demands of Greater social and environmental responsibility is
missing a key demand.
Markup of products is close to 400% in some
instances due to low labor costs.
Workers are working between 12 to 16 hours often.
These are young women who work for contractors or
subcontractors or filling orders for larger companies based
in the US Canada Germany, Japan or the
UK?
Low, skill tedious work for below subsistence wages
and foreign abusive boss.
Denying someone's freedom and their economic and social agency to
make the goods we consume.
Change would require pressure on businesses and the governments where
they do business to implement new policies to prevent
abuse from businesses operating in
their jurisdiction.
Where there is respect for human rights and their operations and Supply
chains.
Companies are presenting social accountability. They have to
live up to it while some do sophisticated design
and copy can highlight certain wins, but
hide
the untruths
down are we presenting data?
Since now include labor Provisions, however, only about one
third of trade agreements from the last decade contained Provisions
relating specifically to freedom from Forced labor and
other fundamental rights at work.
In addition there remains secrecy around production volumes.
Brands disclose the supplier policy but little
disclose how it is implemented.
one third of major fashion brands score between
zero to 10% on the fashion transparency index
secrecy on suppliers policies and commitments persist
because international trading rules do not enforce
these measures nor prevent companies from paying
low wages selling off factories and making deals
with dictators.
If there's so many more initiatives around sustainable
business, why are we consuming more and
wasting resources at an even quicker pace?
Because growth is the goal and growth is the
only supposed way to finance the sustainable practices companies aspire
to
the promise is for doing better cutting carbon
emissions and so on and so forth remain empty promises
if the main Drive is profit and growth
The same logic of planned obsolescence lies behind the
sustainable products. We are now being exposed to convincing you
of something new and better.
Buying a more sustainable version you are saving the
Earth from Oblivion.
And she products continue and will continue to get
made.
Newer sustainable products are priced that a premium.
attracting
a segment of society and signaling to
those that cannot afford it that this is not for them.
How expensive second hand clothing or so-called sustainable
products are should have us thinking about why the
other stuff is so cheap.
We all know people tend to overvalue things.
Think of the price of homes or how people sell H&M tops they
bought for 20 pounds for over 40 pounds on Online Marketplace.
As the saying goes only the rich can afford to
buy cheap.
Everyone should have access to good quality products that last
as I've written elsewhere.
Convenience is the most underestimated and
least understood force in the world today.
All around the world convenience more efficient and easier
ways of doing personal tests has emerged as perhaps the
most powerful driver shaping our individual lives and
our economies.
Convenience seems to make our decisions for us.
Think what we like to imagine are our true preferences.
Easy is better easiest is best.
While convenience has its benefits it also has a
dark side. It makes us lazy spoiled by
immediacy.
the glamor of throwing
culture from the post-war period that led to
the culture of convenience should be abolished instead. We
should remove the idea that repairs and the
time it takes to repair are not cost-effective.
But we cannot expect everyone to sud.
Denly able to repair things themselves.
basic repair skills should be taught at a young age to
help people gain the confidence to mend their garments and fix their
Electronics now while objects have become easier to use
delusion of
seamotherians we have lost the ability to control how things
work.
to take them apart and to question the assumptions that
guide their
creation as an experience is
Cliff Quang writes the more opaque it becomes
our gadgets now make our decisions for us and we sit
back and accept it for the sake of convenience.
So far, I have focused on Industrial consumption
looking at Fashion products and
services.
But the aviation industry accounts for over 2.5%
of global CO2 emissions roughly
speaking because of how emissions are attributed.
The street also produces millions of tons of cabin waste due
to strict restrictions put on food safety hygiene fresh
hygiene freshness and so on and rules imposed to
avoid disease transfer therefore catering is often
incinerated or buried in landfill preventing reuse
and recycling.
Interestingly over the last 20 years Airlines have developed
inventive ways to cut costs including developing a
whole bag industry around the low cost Airlines a
travel-sized toiletries industry and not
to mention the bottled water phenomenon.
Surely they can develop innovative solutions to this
problem.
Here's their solution.
It's difficult not to be amused by the Paradox that Ryanair offers
you the option to offset your emissions for a
small fee.
After they've bombarded you with all the other add-ons.
After you've gotten your hotel your car your insurance your meals.
Airlines will continue to fly and it will continue to
be keeper to fly from London to any European city due
to Transportation infrastructure and costs.
And why should I be inconvenience with all the changes required to
reach my destination for a higher price on a train?
Of course. It is far worse in North America where lobbying efforts by
car manufacturers contributed to poor transportation systems.
And flying as much easier.
To think that in countries with the largest land mass in the world. There
are no bullet trains.
Such as the power of lobbying.
And even as Financial collapse and environmental disaster Loop, there
is no pressure on changing things on reevaluating the
systems that continue to support this there is only pressure
on Greening Airlines.
Now another industry whose carbon footprint outweighs most
countries and is seldom discussed is the military.
The US Department of Defense has a larger carbon footprint
and emits more carbon dioxide than nation states
on their own according to Nessa Crawford.
The military is a space where design engineering and
Technology Thrive a space where future technology develops
at the expense of people's lives which then turns to
seemingly harmless commercial Technologies.
standardization component interchangeability actually came
from US government agencies and the methods developed
quickly became the global system of
War doesn't just cost lives
costs
it costs the environment.
Over the last 45 minutes. Have I been speaking?
Before 45 minutes. I'm not sure. I'm not keeping my eye on the clock. I don't know how
much longer I have.
Am I okay?
Yeah good.
So over the last 45 minutes, I have outlined the problems of
the sustainable Market. However
If we look at these products from the standpoint of the term sustainability, then
they are doing exactly that sustaining.
The main delivery of sustainability as it was originally popularized
as economic.
Therefore my title is incorrect because
there are no contr.
Adictions so we do exactly as the system wants us to
do.
We blame nature rather than understand this as a condition. We have
created ourselves, but I use the terms sustainability
because it is difficult to get rid of.
And the term itself is fueled by global initiatives such as the UN
sustainable development goals.
There is much Reliance in faith on big Global governance organizations
and Foundations such as Bill Gates Foundation Ellen
MacArthur Foundation the world economic Forum the IMF
the UN sustainable development goals
The proposed Global strategies have not accomplished much.
They are devised by and on behalf of the
dominant global system capitalism.
And those who created the conditions?
For climate crisis are the same ones setting and controlling
the interests of fighting it by setting the debate and
the conditions for the debate to take place.
Reducing one's plastic consumption and attaining is
zero waste life are a much easier sell than questioning
Injustice iniquity and environmental catastrophe.
moreover placing
the origins of environmental destruction nearer to
the 1800 to the 1800 Industrial Revolution denies
that the system that led to modern day
climate crisis in the first place is colonialism.
Centuries long effort to dominate other peoples and exert
political and economic control over other Terror over
their territories.
Colonialism facilitated a system
of resource extraction that not only includes practices such
as fossil fuel manufacturing but also clear cutting
of forests industrial Agriculture and water
intensive mining.
All these practices fed industrialization and a
culture of consumption that neatly tracked the rise of greenhouse
gas concentrations in the atmosphere.
Resource extraction hinges on the displacement of
indigenous peoples a reality that is intentionally hidden from
most of the world in an attempt to justify a business as
usual.
One only needs to look at the media coverage of the
Pakistan floods where Millions were displaced and millions still
walk through water. The effects of ecological catastrophe
is something that happens to Brown bodies elsewhere.
The continuation of these practices makes CR
permanent condition caused not by natur
E but by the system's humans have created.
The emergence of the coronavirus pandemic is a case in
point.
This was a consequence of our hyper consumption our
Waste Systems the privatization of our essential Services the
exploitation and oppression of people all over the world.
Covid may have changed the world, but it did not change anything about how we
think.
This leaves us wondering if we are unable to reflect on
the root causes of our unsustainable world. Will we
just be as unprepared for the next pandemic?
We must work to unlearn viewing sustainability as just another
what's in it for me situation.
To conclude I would like to look at some possibilities of Designing
over.
There are many Advocates of Designing over time, but I would like to expand the
picture to touch on design but beyond product services and
propose more General ideas.
The first is consumer anticipation.
After well over a decade of creating consumer
anticipation for new devices.
How does this then become an unlearned?
And we could consider imposing rules on smartphone giants
like Apple and Samsung.
So what if phones were made to last in constructed in
a way where they did not require a secondary Market of screen protectors
and cases?
The second is modularity, which is slowly becoming
a design consideration with an increase in commercial products
that combine features in a meaningful way.
for example a bed that also has a side table
fitting by the brand reframed or a multifunctional pan
from the brand our place rather than having a
set of pans all having different functions.
Solutions are simple, but they take a critical look at
our obsession with feature writers.
Problem fueled by a lack of critical design education that
fails to educate designers in developing literacy in
dealing with complexity.
In understanding the unintended consequences of what we make before
and after it.
from an obsession with outcomes
a designer can go a long way in looking at an object
and thinking what was going through the designer's head when
they first designed it.
Challenge of Designing over time is to get designers and this
also applies to anyone facing challenges not just designers to
go back to the moment. Something was designed created.
Why was it designed this way?
What were the conditions and the context in which
this came to be?
modularity considers replacing pieces of
an object rather than the whole
however, replacing objects remains a difficult
and rather buying a whole new one is easier and
cheaper and how often should we replace our
objects?
Should tags be implemented to remind us how to care for things
or extend their life.
What about repair to repeat my earlier statement or
repair culture requires the creation of conditions to
enable it?
Such as training people in repair at an
early age.
The placeability and refillability are being considered by
smaller Brands but bigger Brands and companies who have
the larger market share are falling behind.
Third designing over time is not only looking
at the material outcome and placing the designer at the
end of the process.
But understanding the different positions designers have in
the system by learning to engage the entire ecosystem.
What restrictions are considered before making a thing?
For example how serious our conversations about abolishing
seasons for the fashion industry.
Or considering modular wardrobes or moving
away from a focus on materials and landfill and demanding Humane
labor conditions.
and pay for the very people who make our
fourth designing over time means looking at Necessities
such as water heating in the internet as communal
rather than individual commodities.
I said I would return to the supermarket.
Supermarkets are one of the first places where we can begin to design
over time.
Throughout the last two years. We have realized the dangers of
a food system reliant on just in time delivery.
Leaving record high inflation and skyrocketing prices means
more and more people are struggling to afford groceries and
despite coming face to face with empty shells and
panic buying during a pandemic. We seem unable to
imagine an alternative to our food systems.
There's a scene in the 1991 film Father of the
Bride where Steve Martin's character George Banks demonstrates
some nonsensical decisions at
Excuse me, sir. What are you doing?
I'll tell you what I'm doing.
I want to buy eight hot dogs and eight
hot dog buns to go with them. But no one sells eight hot
dog buns. They only sell 12 hot dog buns. So
I end up paying for four buns. I don't need so I
am removing the Superfluous buns. I'm sorry,
sir, but you're gonna have to pay for all 12 buns. They're
not marked individually.
Yeah, you want to know why?
Because some big shot over at the wiener company
got together with some big shot over at the bun company
and decided to rip off the American public because
they think the American public is a bunch of trusting nitwits
who papers need rather than
make a stink. Well, they're not ripping off this that wet
anymore because I'm not paying for one more thing. I don't need
George Banks is saying no who's
George Banks?
three
item of decisions made for the sake of cost and packaging
that end up contributing to food.
What if large supermarkets were required to be entirely refillable
where possible?
What if convenience products like chopped onions and garlic? Are you
really that busy and both buying were abolished to
make room for shopping based on need instead of
the rise of refillable stores and cooperatives are
welcome. But as Anne Larson argues, these are often
dismissed as offbeat boutiques frequented by hippies
in the upper classes while the vast majority of Us shop in
supermarket.
In my work I push for radical action
against the political and economic Frameworks that shape
Our Lives.
In this talk, I worked through more simple propositions.
The reason for this is because large-scale change and meaningful actions
demands planning.
And time instead, I propose what me and Pedro Olivera term
minor gestures.
Looking in terms of minor gestures allows us to work on the
very pervasiveness of the infrastructures of capital and
colonialism.
At the same time minor gestures do not
is chew the necessity of addressing the structural causes of
inequality mental illness dehumanization and
environmental destruction.
minor gestures can be a way of destructuring and disarming
that which seems inevitable to escape from
minor gestures are localized subversive acts that can be
performed to expand the limits of a given in closed system.
They are radical in the sense of exposing addressing and
tackling the root while they escape being caught or apprehended
by Common diminishing connotations.
most importantly minor gestures do not replace the
need and the demand to dismantle institutional power
nor the collective organized struggle towards
systemic change instead a minor
gesture is to be viewed as a buildup a place
to start but
the place we start is by addressing our crisis of
imagination.
Sisters thinking is about questioning basic assumptions. It should teach
us to question the very terms of the things we think are just
normal.
Let us remove the shackles of the past that determine our
future by relying on the same systematic patterns that produce the
previous problem and leave them to repeat those patterns.
To let go of the familiar and lay with the discomfort the
discomfort that can help imagine the world in you.
Thank you. That's fantastic. I really
enjoyed your talk. Thank you. Thanks. And I'm gonna open it up to
questions anyone online and please put
your question in the in the
question bit.
Great. I've got a question up at the back. So I'm gonna run
around with the mic.
I there
was amazing. Thank you so much for doing this
into awesome words that I'm good.
Like going like that. Yeah, I was
really happy to end it with the with the discomfort and
like the micro gestures because that was something I was thinking
about.
I've kind of like contributed to the fast fashion Myself by being
the product that promoted these products so
I've both been unlikely high end of fashion and also like
the lower end. So I've bought one
outfit and then also shot like six racks in
a day where was on technically on click
off.
And I've been to this kind of like point where eventually
I didn't care about clothes anymore. So I just follow as long as
they keep me warm. I'll be okay and then
you start noticing your surroundings. They're like, well all of
you you never you wear this like for so long. This is never like
don't you need some new clothes don't you need some new things
So eventually like I this makes you feel more comfortable
while going buy something else. Luckily. It was
something like a geodes certified. I hope that you can verify
for me. That one is a correct label of
sustainability because I've been trying to find one and
it's very few out there.
and others also thinking about the thing that Matilda said
earlier in which like this this awkward of
vulnerability singing together in which you then
kind of like share this experience. I don't know how to put it towards exactly
but there's experience I had which is similar to that
one in dancing Where You Freestyle and you kind of
like have to dance. Well nobody's watching but everybody's watching
And I feel like wearing.
Like non-conformible clothes is kind of like that. It's like
you're dancing the dance of like doing this
sustainable my mini gesture of like
Breaking like breaking away from the system of
like clothing is it like they had stressing
certain way. So I love how you call it mini
gestures and what worked in the freestyle sessions
what that every daring move that
somebody would perform that was out of their comfort zone
will be celebrated and seeing
that what they did for like building confidence and
like having people try more things in that direction was very
beautiful, and I think that miniature in that sense so
not complementing each other on the nice
new clothes that you wear, but hey, I love
the tear that you have or it's so cool
that like I can see you where it is after this many years. I think
those kind of small gestures as you beautifully name
is also that very nice.
So, thank you and just what I
wanted. It's like share from my side. Thank you.
Thanks. Do you want to
respond to that dinner or should we just go to the next?
No, I'm happy to go to the next one. I think I just want to thank you for for
sharing that I don't think you want me to respond, but you
know.
All right.
So I'm happy to let you respond if you had something now, go
ahead. It's I can.
Maybe try through your question and try and Link them together. Sure.
Yeah, I love the the clothes
to the the speech is so powerful this concept of
minor gestures. That's new for
me. And the way you define it
was really powerful and I just
wondered if you could elaborate on that a bit more like would
you have any specific examples or
things that you define that
way that you've seen that have been effective?
Paper which is being in review, I guess at.
The moment. I hope no one here is the reviewer so, you know who's
written it and
but
to minor gestures in the context of Education particularly because
that's the context in which we work and we
we draw on a few examples.
One of the main ones we talk about is we
talk about language, but then we talk about this idea of
spaces of disciplinary boundaries. So what happens when
you create a module that isn't tied to
one design specialism that actually begins to tackle these
larger complex problems, and then the reactions of
students have
So we use that as one way of kind of
a testing ground.
For for kind of on the way
to these decolonial acts, you know, these sort of
minor gestures of what happens when a module is completely dedicated
to this and we
we discuss that so that's kind of one of
the examples another one of the examples that we used is around.
Language of talking about Israel Palestine,
which is often referred to as a conflict, but it's
not conflict.
we talk about
Physicians
And calling things out.
by Sir, it's
it's settler colonialism and so native and settler
and that was kind of another aspect that we discussed.
Hello. Sorry, I'm going to really struggle through this question
because it's something I've been.
Suppose grappling with struggling since the beginning of my career career
and I started as a commercial to
beautician. I don't know how many people in this
room know what that is. So how it functions. It seems that
you may because I mean just pause the presentation
was quite simultic very can. Yes,
essentially analyzing the underlying ideology
and
The youngest definition is needed and also
the communications behind and what signals
and then how culture is changing and then how
that then and informs what we
do and how we Define things as well. And so it's
supposed to go on from that. I came from the world were very
much. We would analyze these things and then be
that
Voice for the brands of how to put into
those changing meanings and
how to stay relevant, right? The relevance your Brands is
breeder the goal, but the
same time I'm so connected to that world. And I know
a lot of people in it, you know, they also see those things that the
jobs to understand who shifts and what we're
contributing into
and that in their own ways and trying to influence it
and
I decided to get out instead try to move
to service design and through that as opposed now trying to
also understand systemic design, but I'm trying
to find ways in which maybe the two worlds
could.
I don't know feed into each other and I
wonder how much do you see I suppose
the question would be.
Is the potential at all and trying to influence things
and that brand level of you know
them impacting and changing from what we've been
through that kind of strategic, you know, the
insights research and all that kind of strategic level and
or is it really a regulation and kind of
wider systems could there be together? I don't know
what I'm asking about. I hope that makes sense.
Hard to see you this slide. So it's a little bit like, oh got so much better.
But I also don't want to do that.
I think this kind of what I'm trying to get to is that there's
you know it that idea of It kind of
relating to back to a Naomi Klein was writing like Brands were very prevalent,
but it is if you can't get away from it
now.
Every every space I mean you have like Nike TV on
YouTube.
Um, so it's become.
and also this generation very much believes that these Brands
can be the
road to change but
the amount of
research doing in the I'm sorry. You have to go here.
the amount of research they're doing and all of the
these fog of these fashion transparency indexes, all of these things
that pop up that industry. They aren't really
addressing regulations. They're kind of addressing that superficial
and that sort of what I'm trying to get to is that you know, how much
are we tackling the real issues at hand rather than
because again, this is like green washing on steroids at this
point, right?
And so for a brand if you just tell
them do the bare minimum, that's what they're going to do.
because that's
that's just how they're allowed to operate. But if
all of these different initiatives and if demands actually focus
on the things that do cause real change then we're actually
having a very different conversation and and that's what I was trying to push through
through here.
I'm not sure if that answers your question or yeah.
Great.
Thank you. I got one question on and then I'll come
to the person here. Okay. So,
okay, I'm gonna start we've
actually got two questions online, but I'm going to start with this one from Neha
man and mandlik
Mija asks, as you
mentioned convenience being a major hurdle who designers
in this spectrum and the tendency of people perceiving
convenience as a personal freedom. How
does one go about implying?
These changes on a plethora of perspectives of
life. That is our society.
Can you repeat that? Yeah, I'll see tackle.
so for designers
as a major hurdle
for designers in this spectrum
and the tendency of people perceiving convenience as
a personal freedom.
How do you go about implying these
changes on all of the different perspectives that
is like in our society I guess. So, how
do we deal with that idea of you know
freedom of choice and autonomy, I guess.
and
okay convenience. I mean it's a
yes.
It's question. I often get these at conferences.
I think people look at me as though I could answer.
it I don't know most of the
rest and I'm very happy to sit in front of my students and say this as
well. I don't have
All the answers, and I probably won't answer your question.
As as much but I'm can
try to I think that you know, we helped.
create
this narrative around convenience and that becoming
that freedom of choice and so perhaps it's
using either those tools or activating new
ones in order to change those mindsets. Obviously
the Doom and Gloom kind.
Environmental catastrophe which is very much a reality for
a lot of people far away. As I said, you know
ecological catastrophes happening to bodies elsewhere. It's not happening here.
So it's not problem for me.
So I would say the same way that we helped create
it.
Do we help kind of unlearn it and and
bring in new tools if I've understood your
question correctly? I think I'll leave it there.
Thanks, Donna.
It's a question in the audience.
Thanks for the dark. I tried to make it quick but
a big back to Tom's question in the
beginning of our our experiences so far with
the conference because I'm not from systemic design
like until two days ago. I didn't even know it's such
a specific thing.
And I think it's great so far and I mean
all you guys are really great. But one thing that confuses me
in the last days is negativity and
almost that sarcasm at some point.
I don't want to be too much of this life coach
thing. Right just change your mindset and be optimistic
and everything's great. But still maybe I
mean against that I might have two counter arguments
here what you were saying. And the first one
is this kind of don't we have to start somewhere, right?
thinking about
ESG
Sure, you can critique and of course, it's some green washing thing.
It's being misused in many ways. But still
it's something that made a lot of companies think
about their business practices and if there are
ways of changing them.
So that's one thing doesn't make sense to just imply
something.
's greenwash enough maybe at some point which has become green.
And the the second one would be this iteration and
what I also everyone here, we all not
if we say, oh, yeah design is iterative and we have to try out many
different options.
isn't one part of iteration also
to
bring things to the market and just put them out there and
then someone then we can come and say yeah, but actually it should
take it back again.
but it's
you also you just have to do something and what I
understand it's part of design to.
To kind of try out things and put them out there.
I hope that's not too chaotic. But I really like you to react
to that. No, I'm happy with your critique. I mean sometimes to
answer your last thing sometimes designers just need to stop making
stuff. You know, it's just
When don't design in terms of the negativity,
I?
I won't be offended by that because I actually call myself a piss
Optimist, which is that space between hope and despair.
And that's the way I choose to inhabit and that's how
I think most people shouldn't have it because it gives me this big
critical mind. I think design suffers from too much
ridiculous optimism. A lot
of these initiatives are very wishy-washy.
And I think we need to call them out. We need to call them out because frankly it's
just you look at some of these you say
if we green wash enough. Are we going to become green?
I mean, I see what you mean by the same as a kid. I just put something
out there and then you know, I have to try it. But actually I think
it's basically just been so much trial and so much good intentions
to the point that it's become.
Just it has just extreme negative effects.
And so that's what I try to push this idea of critical thinking
I think it's very easy to see that and interpret that
as negativity, but actually, you know, that's what
my role is as someone
who is in the academy.
as well
and to try to
kind of I guess.
I want my students to go out and think critically
about what they make in the world. They inhabit beyond
their little bubble, but they had
And really think about the impact it has everywhere
to I think that's what you're not going to get that with
optimism. I think there's been like a Whole Decade of
optimism around design and what has it gotten us to
not very much. It's still not even seen as a critical discipline so
I could just be speaking to a room in this not gonna go anywhere.
Stuff it doesn't have that much impact. But yeah,
I mean I
yeah, that's I guess that's my my response to it.
A question in two parts,
or maybe two questions.
Can design be a political?
Or come systemic design
or is systemic design something about generating new
ideologies.
Kind of straightforwardly. No, I don't think so because I'm
gonna quote Michael Beirut who says
not everything is about design but design is about everything.
um, what was your second question can systemic so
is systemic design and to the gentleman's question earlier about
critiquing you know this
You have to start somewhere type.
Of thing. Yes systemic design about
bringing together different ideologies so that
you may propose something and thereby.
Probably be a political in the in the
politics sense of the world.
Prioritization making choices and so on
and so forth.
since
a political design
I have to be honest, I don't understand what a systemic designer is.
I think it would kind of follow into whatever practice I
have as a designer. I mean most people would Place me as a graphic designer. I'm
the head of a graphic design Department. I get that by also kind
of, you know, I feel more of a generalist I've taught
in different spaces.
I try to understand the different specializations
and I think that the ideas that are promoted through
this Association are relevant for all disciplines. You
know, I wouldn't kind of
Call someone a systemic designer. I think every designer
needs to think of things as as a whole as
a system about things trialing and
coming together to develop ideas.
And as I said, this could be half baked ideas that I'm testing
out on an audience, but I think to think about the damage
of what your ideas could have, you know, because there's
a lot of have big ideas that are now very very dangerous. And
so to think that what I do is not political
that's the problem. It has led to right and so
this is kind of what I'm trying to call out
here, you know, and that comes from
a lot of it comes from education, you know, I think that
It to to what Tony
was referred and what Tony has been saying for over 20 years anyways,
and what many of us have been saying about design educ?
Ation, I am in the middle of it. I can tell you that this is it's a constant
battle even where we're talking about.
Things are moving into more Progressive Realms. It's still a
battle.
To have these discussions to actually think about know
what is a designer's education for them to
go out and have the right tools. But also those tools are going
to develop, you know, I'm I've quoted myself but I often disagree
with things I've written before, you know, you kind of like write something goes
out and then you're like, I agree with myself, you know,
I but that's kind of part of that process.
So yeah, I'm not sure. I'm answering your question, but I'm
trying to kind of make make links to what the
other gentleman was saying.
Thanks, Jenna.
I was gonna recommend your article against performative positivity
as well for the question about.
Yeah, I guess being negative
as well. Just
I yeah, I can send you the link if you want it. Let me know.
a good one
Sorry, tweet it. I'm not on Twitter. I hate Twitter.
I'm not going to say that.
Okay.
So we've got a couple of questions online.
Margaret he
pose in the neoliberalism idea
that we are to see ourselves as entrepreneurs of
ourselves some historians have suggested that
this strange link of personal Liberty with the
economics of neoliberalism is destroying our moral
compass and Humanity the idea
that we confuse this Choice personal Liberty
and freedom.
Have you got a response to that would you like me to read it again? Yeah, was that
a question or because it sounded like you had read it like a statement.
Sorry. There's a few question marks in there. Okay?
Basically, could you respond to the
idea of neoliberalism? Is it something you've grappled with?
I mean
Is it something I refer to
I think yes, basically what we're living in.
Yeah, this is part that you know that the privatization
of public spaces is what
I've talked about which is very much a kind of
big part of neoliberalism talking about that sort of entrepreneurial
individual who is quite resilient who
you know.
it's funny because when you think about
when you think about technological fixes and how everyone's like
all these things are so great. Right, but actually now you're doing so much
more laborer than previously you are now your own travel
agent. You are now like everything.
Every paid for this is part of that.
In society and designers have enabled it through designing these
interfaces faces designing these experiences and so on. So yeah,
absolutely. I'm not sure I can
really address that whole thing.
But I do believe that a lot of what I have talked about
here and this sort of push.
because I do believe that a lot of these a lot
of the language that these brands use and
You know the fact that we are relying on all these
Brands to make these changes that a whole generation believes.
That the change can come strictly from these brands.
Is that idea that this is an individual perspective
rather than a collective one?
Thank you.
Okay.
So we have a question now from Neha from
the national in from Gotham National
Institute design in India.
Okay, that convenience has to be unsustainable. Could
it be that in the future perhaps with
a different distribution or economic system. We
could have both sustainability and
convenience.
conven
ient more convenient how
Is my question back?
Mock it. So again Michael my question
is how can how?
how convenient like what is the kind of because
yes convenience is great. Right. Hey, we all delve into
convenience. There's no shame in that but
It depends what kind of convenience you can have a more I
won't say sustainable lifestyle because sustaining
what sustaining the convenience what we have now to
have all the the great luxuries that I have and that's
what the talk is trying to lean into.
and that probably goes to relates to Tony's talk
and Tony's discussion of the unsustainable of how we de-future so
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure. It's
Is the person asking the questions saying that if
we have sustainable products?
It's going to make things more convenient.
Sorry, I really struggle with the new ones of Zoom questions. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that.
So I think I think that the suggesting that
actually there is an opportunity to to
have something that is sustainable and convenient,
but I guess that goes back to that question of
what is being sustained. What does sustainability mean
because it is a very slippery term it can
mean different things to different people. But so
I I am interpreting maybe in
correctly. Please respond on on the
questions if you'd like Niha, but it's
hard without us in a context.
to
be responsore of this question. I think that problematizing that
oh
me her has responded I think.
We often in the audience as well. Okay. Oh, she has responded. Yeah, I'll
just go to a question here and then we'll come to
Jodie and then this person
here.
Do we have to give up convenience for
sustainability or can the both coexist in
the future?
Okay, that's much better phrase. Yeah, you're gonna have to
give up some convenience.
because
I mean when you think about
the services that have come to
That are extremely convenient at who's expense. Right?
It's that hidden labor and we've seen a
lot of that during covid. So yes, some things
got to give in order to have
a much kind of
I mean sustainability is not going to save the
world from ecological collapse. That's basically
the just of what I've been trying to
so and convenience has come to
to kind of take over our lives. There's a lot of things that we just
do for the sake of convenience. And in order
to save the planet from Oblivion, you're going
to have to give things up. That's kind of
summary
Of put it bluntly.
Okay, great. So thank you
so much for the criticality in your work. And in this talk,
I've often thought that I
mean and in just the discipline
of graphic design and I've often thought that graphic design
was the most backwards of
all the design disciplines.
Involves in reproducing the logic of
capitalist relations and camouflage and that
is it's inherent function in the whole
and also it's less evident the way in
which graphic design is linked
into the sustainability crisis. It's not as
easily quantifiable as architecture or
product design for example, and so it's really behind the other
design disciplines, but it does seem as if it is a it's
just becoming more evident what a
sight of struggle it is within graphic design. I
mean
To me it seems that way at least.
and like you said in in design education and
one of the things she said is like the danger of selling out
completely some simplification or
Videos, it was one
of your points and just before we get to my question. I just
want to say that that might be a tie into this community because I
think that we talk about like
not oversimplifying and and doing the
the looking into the complexity of
it with with various.
Systemic methods. Anyway my question
is is I mean
and I don't know if you're going to be able to answer this like on some
several other questions like and if you can't find because bringing the criticality
to the spaces like more than enough, but
you know.
There's so much to do what I'd like to ask is to say how do you
think that this?
this
you know communication design can can contribute to
the design for Planet agenda. For
example, or like the obviously from
a decal and I think perspective that we've
been trying to develop in this community too and
like and and for me, it seems like it's it's got
to be not just sort of I mean, I understand you've
mentioned a few like the
micro gestures and
a few other strategies, but it seems that
we need like structural some kind
of like
Things like institutional capacities somehow in
the in the communications sphere because
there's just like there's just so much
potential for green wash and that's why people think
it sounds so negative to be critical because like
the greenwash is so persuade pervasive.
So, I don't know.
if you have any ideas about building more institutional power than
you already have obviously at ual, but
you know beyond that maybe in our community.
Yeah, I mean.
Asking me I I found product and it does for design one
of the most difficult spaces.
To talk about this stuff. Whereas the thing
is that graphic design feels more backwards because of the way
it's kind of not quantifiable.
But I felt it was really.
really much more difficult to get to
product industrial design students to see the effects of what
they're doing. I mean, I'm
I don't know what I guess because of that title engineering but
Yeah, institutional hoof God. This one has been a difficult
one because I mean obviously I met a
quite a progressive institution if you want to say I guess that has
Policies they have an anti-racism action plan. We have
the climate social justice principles that's
now being embedded in curricula. But of course with these
things the danger of these things and what has happened is
that they've become these tick box toolkits because
they're quite easy and digestible right? You can talk
about Injustice in an easy way. You can just change your
reading list and
that's it at decolonized everything, but that's basically what
myself in the group have been writing against for how long
has it been now five five years or so.
and
to constantly have these critical conversations to have people
to really rethink their assumptions question their assumptions.
at this point it's
you know, you you have to to issues. The first is
some people feel like it's something being imposed on them.
And so they're going to become very reluctant.
And I deal with that all the time.
And I still deal with it and I try to make even in my like I
don't actually have as much power as most people think.
I'm kind of squished from the top and squished from the
bottom
and and the system makes it that you don't have
enough time to think about these things.
so
the city anyone that's been in that role understand.
S how the system is made to sort of force you
to fail and deal with paperwork. The process itself has
become all about paperwork.
Right, you know you can have kind of
someone come in be like is the climate embedded in
your learning outcomes? No, okay, 10 points off and
that's kind of what it's becoming and that's a danger.
Is that a win at times?
You could say yes, we take it. What do I
take it with this bureaucratic process? How do I change it
in the classroom in my way?
I guess I mean
I I don't know. There's something there's so many different.
conversations going on obviously you
Depending on the position that you hold you have certain.
Power to sort of disrupt a conversational or make people think
differently about something to influence something else.
I'm trying to work through the minor gestures
because I sort of look at reading the
audience. Okay, what will work in this context?
What won't I think with communication design there is an incredible
amount of potential.
because it is also now very
much in that ux UI space, which actually
we're not really capitalizing on and
That's an area and also because I think
the other thing that is quite interesting.
I don't know about other design programs because it's also
context specific is the types of students interested in
communication design.
And so you're kind of really widening.
The scope who's coming in and what those experiences
and narratives they're bringing into the classroom. That's
really changing things around.
But yeah, I mean this is this is such a long discussion. This
is something I think about all the time and try and
do in my work whether in the classroom whether in small
incremental changes within the curriculum.
In conversation with the staff, you
know.
Through writing more accessible work
that is not necessarily kind of behind this paywall in
journals.
I think I think it's an interesting space because also at the same time the
what I really really I think
of people forget about communication design is that you're the
closest to your craft because you're sort of
still very much as a designer in chart almost
in charge of that final outcome, but at the same time communication designers
are often always brought in at the end.
Whereas you see other types of designers are brought in at the
beginning of the process. So maybe that's kind of where we start in terms
of. What is the role of a communication designer.
Always at the end and how do we bring that?
Great. Thanks. Anna those great question gramsa
and response and I'm afraid
I only got time for one more question, which is
here.
Hello.
Thanks to the great talk. This is kind of an Ethics question.
I really liked your presentation and
it resonates a lot with my own like practice.
I used to be in Academia. Now. I work in Industry as
a research designer.
And one of the things that I do
is I interview customers I ask
them, you know what they want and what they need I take
those things and I advise the design team on what
you know, how what changes the customers want
and often customers really want convenience
and they really want things to be fast and
cheap and you know
all the things that we have been talking about that maybe aren't the best of
the most sustainable. So how do you advise that?
Like I do my job, you know what I mean? Like, I feel
like it's kind of ethical quandary where you know, I'm hearing
things that maybe I see the negative impacts of
but if that's what the person wants
who am I to step in and say you're wrong
Yeah, no, absolutely who doesn't love convenience?
the powerful
Force it's like the more convenient you make something like for example
when you used to order, but I still sometimes call the
restaurant because I know that that Uber Eats or whatever
it takes about 35% is that right? And a
lot of them have their own drivers and usually kind of
build this relationship if you can
if you're I mean, I'm not old but like if you kind of
see in the films where it's like yeah order number four and
You know that was that was the extent of the convenience now, it's like I
don't even need.
That game and that's what people like they don't want to talk to people anymore because you've
conditioned them into that.
So this is the interesting part about the work of
design. Is that need and desire?
Right. So those desires have been made into needs needs. I
don't want to engage with anybody. You've manufactured this
these.
Ideas of convenience and made them so prevalent in
people's lives.
Take them as like oh, yeah, how
could it be any other way, you know, and so maybe your
strategy is a much more difficult one.
It's thinking about okay if this is what people are saying.
What strategies or who do I work with?
Who do I come together with in order to think about different ways
to make them consider the problematics of
this or to to address things or to work
things?
To work through things differently because I think what we're again, it's
like the whole what's in it for me situation, and we need to really get
away from that, right?
the
by this light is Just Killer.
and it's
Yeah, the what's in it for me situation is
the issue and that's kind of what you're describing. So how do we
I do not have the answer for this, you know?
I don't think we'll have the answer for this for a long
time.
But how do you get away from that being?
people's go to
because of where the Earth is heading to I just don't think
that people really realize the extent.
which
things are going and the extent to which our
sustainability has destroyed the world.
so it's probably
as important as for designers to understand that.
With these questions, there's no immediacy.
It's a long-term process. How do you begin to enable
people to unlearn the practices of anticipating a
device of anticipating the next
more convenient thing?
I mean, you know, most of us know that self-service checkouts
are a nightmare, but we still use them because we're like, well,
this is the way of the world right and you even have the clerk because
they're coming to lose my job go to the self-service checkout, but I still need that.
Person why because it's unexpected bagging item.
So
You know, there's but we sort of think. Oh, yeah,
that's more convenient. But actually a lot of times it's not so it's kind
of this unlearning but also this sort of
process of
For you, it's like a lifelong probably process.
I'm just saying that it's not going to
happen.
It's not something immediate. It's something that you should
continue to think about.
I need to work on.
and maybe also think about
What types of questions you are asking people as well?
In order to get different types of answers not by Leading.
Yeah.
Thanks, Donna. And yeah, that was the last
question. Thank you so much.
All right.
I know you're super busy person. So I'm so
so pleased that you've been able to come down to Brighton and I hope
you come again.
Yeah, but I've got a gift for you
and
it's a print by Anthony burrill
and printed by my mate, Gary.
Around the corner from our Studios and architecture and
Design Studios and all of
them go towards your child, and it's a piece poster. Thank
you so much.